Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger will visit troops in Iraq next week, according to The Sacramento Bee. Schwarzenegger visited the troops before he was governor, but this will be the first time he'll go as California's chief executive.
Here's more from the SacBee story:
Schwarzenegger previously visited troops on United Service Organizations-sponsored tours in 2002 to Bosnia to preview his movie, "Collateral Damage," as well as in 2003 to Iraq to show "Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines."
"He's been wanting to visit the troops for the last few years but hasn't had the opportunity to," said Schwarzenegger communications director Matt David. "He thought now would be a good time to make a short trip over there."The governor will be in the Middle East for a couple of days, David said. Asked whether Schwarzenegger planned to make any other stops, David said it was possible but that the governor had no further plans at this point. He said he could not provide more specifics for security reasons.
Have him put on his camo gear, war paint, blow-up some terrorists, and bring back our soldiers!
He visited the troops in Bosnia to push his movie "Collateral Damage," In my??? war; WWII, we called it innocent or unnecessary victims and/ or casualties; not some high-falooten collateral damage....what in hell that ever is in context with human life and death.
Rich...so we're on the same page about attaining victory...then bringing everybody home...Cool!
There are a lot of good folk on that same page to bring then home; to let them live their lives as God has meant them to.
Brian trust me, we won't be missed in Iraq when our soldiers leave, same with Afganistan.
I am certain the Bush flag wavers won't be so willing to bring "freedom" to a region most could not find on a map after we leave.
You can not define "victory" in this type of so-called "war on terror".
I was joking in my first post so basically we are not on the same page. I also assume you were joking in your response. (I just needed to clarify).
Rich...I don't joke about the mission and safety of our brave soldiers...it's your choice to do so.
Brian it says something about your reality if you believe my first comment with your first response to this thread.
If you cared about the welfare of our soldiers you wouldnt have supported Bush lies that put our soldiers in harms way.
Well it's something you have to live with for the rest of your life, not me.
Rich...I hear what your saying and I'll just continue to deal with my reality...Thanks and Best wishes with your reality.
To Brian Murray and "Rich!" I am butting into your ongoing argument. Many Americans did not support President Bush and his rationale for that somewhat "odd" war in Iraq. But contrary to his campaign promises, President Obama seems to be buying into the Bush war in Afghanistan, and even planning to expand it (according to media reports.) Now who is really destined "having to live with it?" I am also thinking of those who reap profits from the war; and not just the "Military Industrial Complex" giants of industry, but those everyday people who derive profit from their stocks and bonds, not even knowing that they are making money on stuff that is manufactured for the purpose of fighting wars. Five Star General and President Eisenhower once said that he hoped for the time that the profession of soldier would be obsolete. And according to the Pacifist world-renowned author Count Leo Tolstoy, we all are guilty; society is guilty. According to Jesus, we are not even allowed self-defense, but that is unrealistic to us everyday Cristians.
Isabell I'm not a fan of Obama (so-far) on how he is handling Bush's mess.
I'm with your view 100% on the "military industrial complex". The beast is very big and needs to be fed with our tax dollars. So-called "wars" are good for the profiteers.
Isabell...and best wishes to you also, in your reality...we are all the producer,director and leading person in our version and we wouldn't have it any other way...lights,camera...action.
Rich-
Let me clarify something for you and others who believe that they know what the "Bush flag wavers" believe. You would probably regard me as a "Bush flag waver" and I would have no objection to being so labeled. However, although I very much agree with the reason we went into both Iraq and Afghanistan, I think it is folly to try to turn those countries into western-style democracies. Although I am not the typical modern European pacifist who would surrender at the first sign of conflict, I think we should withdraw our troops to positions just over the horizon from these countries. Then, let them battle it out among themselves, and let the strongest prevail. We should then fund and develop a CIA intelligence network in those countries (using the most effective methods, regardless of how distasteful the erudite elite in this country find them) and when an Al-Qaeda type threat begins to develop, we should go in and destroy it- with or without the permission of the local government. After destroying whatever threat we perceive in these countries, we should return to our over the horizon positions. Let them clean up the mess we leave. This area of the world is completely ungovernable and we are only fooling ourselves by trying to establish any alliance with these Islamic chowderheads. They respect power only and anyone who doesn't understand that is fooling themselves.
Dittos, Joe.
10X
Joe...Dittos...please understand(I don't know how long you've been reading Rich's posts but everything begins and ends with Bush...classic BDS.
Joe,
The concept sounds good and I'd like to agree with you but I've lost faith in our Government. Why should I believe in the CIA to do the right thing? Bush blamed the CIA in the first place for faulty information. That in-itself is a BIG screw-up IF we are to believe Bush.
Our Government is letting sensitive national security information out of this Country for what else, money. Isreal, China, Turkey have been stealing sensitive information for decades, because people put money over safety of our people.
Your suggestion seems better then what we are doing now. The U.S. has been doing similar things you suggest in South America for decades.
We may have less soldiers killed with your suggestion, that's the only benifit.
Joe,
To your last sentence;
"They respect power only and anyone who doesn't understand that is fooling themselves."
I think to be more accurate you meant "it's better to be feared then respected"?
I'm not so sure "power" is in the equation.
Well I can't say I disagree Joe....except the misconception about pacifists being those who "surrender at the first sign of conflict." I think Americans in general are pacifists in that they don't want or like war but we sure as hell don't surrender at the first sign of conflict. Freedom is something we will always fight for. Ours, and mostly in the past 60 years, the freedoms of other countries and people.
That said, these two wars in the middle east are a situation where there will be no winner. We are fighting an ideal not a physical enemy, and I think we're better off with a strategy more like what you propose. I'm not crazy about being the world's police but someone's got to do it and we are the most capable power on the planet.
Americans are obsessed with winners and losers. Someone has to win and someone has to lose. Putin is still infuriated that we consider ourselves "the winner" of the cold war. In reality, we together with Gorbachev, ended the cold war. That's the way it should have been portrayed, the cold war has ended and everyone wins because of it.
I have yet to hear anyone define what victory is in either of these two wars. Wiping out the ideal is unlikely. And polls taken in Afghanistan and Iraq show that most of them just want us to leave.
Personally I think our troops have already accomplished what they set out to do. Eliminate Saddam. We did that handily and with precision of course. Now you're done. Come on home. We are not going to completely change the world and the ideals of everyone in it. However, my hat's off to the soldiers, ours and those around the world, who've made a better life for those in that region. They are the bravest people I know. And those brave soldiers who have fallen for the cause of a better world should never be forgotten.
Scot-
Just wanted to clarify two points with you as I think we fundamentally agree on this matter.
First, I was referring to "European" pacifists. This group is comprised of both the population and the government and are characterized by the pompous, condescending (ie aristrocracy) attitude they hold towards the rest of the world. Then when the world bites back, they shrivel like snails in the hot valley sun.
Second, I don't think a traditional "winning" is possible in either Iraq or Afghanistan (beyond what we've accomplished) and that our objective is to protect the US by taking this fight (and it is a fight) to our potential combatants.
"They respect power only and anyone who doesn't understand that is fooling themselves."
Nobody would accuse the author of that (above) sentence , belonging to an "erudite elite." It could not muster Fourth Grade English Grammar. hahahaha! I made a hardcopy of the entire post "Joe Feldon replied to comment from Rich". I was laughing out loud, reading it. It won't be easy to separate "typical European pacifist who would surrender at the first sign of conflict" and "...these Islamic chowderheads...." Now the gist of the infantile proposal of United States policy,to be applicable in Europe and chowderhead-dom.
"Withdraw all US troops (from Europe) and set up positions just over the horizon from these countries.
"Let them battle it out among themselves, and let the strongest prevail."
"...fund and develop a CIA agency " "...however distasteful to the erudite elite in this country..."
"...when an Al-Qaeda threat begins, go in with or without permission of local government..."
"After destroying whatever threat we perceive,....we should return to our over the horizon positions..."
"Let them clean up the mess we leave." hahahaha!
Has Rich been converted? And we already know of the other declared acolytes. But pray tell; what would that over the horizon-nation use for money after having lost all export markets? And where would those over the horizon places be? At the OK Corral? Or maybe Kearney Park? hahahahaha!
And now back to being a good hausfrau..a laughing one....hahahaha! Mrs. Isabell Lawson
Isabell: In case you have forgotten, Vienna has a horizon also.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20080131/COMMENTARY/288472699/1012
""Let them clean up the mess we leave."" hahahaha
".....they (European pompous aristocrats)shrivel up like snails in the hot valley sun" (Joe Feldon)
hahahaha! What a colorful simile But it also could be a foreboding of (possible) innate cruelty, rather than of humor.
“Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?
The Shadow knows…"
Remember that old time program?
Isabell,
I did respond to Joe other then the 9:20 am post, but this fricken system did not post it for some reason.
Basically we can not trust our own government even if it has an over the horizon option. The CIA was blamed for faulty information before Iraq by Bush and company. Washington pointing fingers at eachother while profiting off our dead soldiers.
Joe's attitude does not see an elite class here in the USA, does not see an elite class that does not sacrifice it's Son's and Daughter's in harms way.
Joe Blames Europeans, United Nations, etc... when the real problems are here at home, sadly sounds typical of talk radio, fox, garbage.
"Rich" I am truly sorry that my usage of inconcise language has created a misunderstanding. My sarcastic question should have been ...were you able to persuade or convert Rich? I would like to state that at this time my participation in this debate is ending because other posts are latching onto the misapplied colloquialism "over the horizon". I was not familiar with it, but my research yielded that the idiom had been used wrongly in the first place. And I am not going to have any discussion about the line where sky and earth appear to meet around Vienna; Austria; my native city. Again, let me assure you that not for a moment have I presumed that you had abandoned your convictions. I am sharing many of them.
Isabell
While I do not believe we can create western style democracy in Afghanistan, victory will be as you describe - destroying the ability of extremists to use a nation state as a base for launching terrorist strikes against the U.S. and Europe. To do so, we must drain the swamp of the Taliban insurgents. That requires more U.S. manpower than we now have as the U.S. General in charge of the Afghanistan operation has made clear.
Unfortunately, as I have written here before, the U.S. will have to do most of the lifting. While the British, the Canadians and the Australians are effective fighters, (1) none of those countries are prepared to meaningfully increase their troop levels, and (2) other European countries are less than capable of fighting or are unwilling to fight.
Germany has been particularly disappointing. An article in the Wall Street Journal weekend edition (authored by Alan Cullison anda Matthew Karnitschnig) pointed out frustrations within and without Afghanistan about the German troops there. Given Germany's very limited rules of engagement and the inexperience of its soldiers, Germany's lack of contribution to the fight "has become a source of of trans-Atlantic tension and raised questions about Germany's military readiness." As the article noted, last week, "German troops remained at a distance as U.S. and Afghan special forces descended on Kunduz, a region ostensibly under German jurisdiction, to fight a major battle to clear out a Taliban stronghold near the German base." In fact, the Kunduz governor is asking for more U.S. troops in his province because "they like to fight."
Scot, while I understand many of the points you raised, I believe Americans are more isolationists than they are pacifists. That is why we are skeptical of committing blood and treasure to try to create a democracy in Afghanistan. However, since that was a nation state which provided substantial material support for those who committed the 9/11 attacks, most Americans (including candidate Obama)support our cleansing operations there. Unfortunately, as was the case last century, American male warriors, raised in a culture of masculinity and competitiveness (unlike so many European males) will have to take the fight to the enemy.
When I find that they didn't run with one of my posts, I just re-post it. I am not sure that Mr. Feldon believes all that weird propaganda. I am convinced that some of it was an attempt to bait me into a reaction of outrage. That is not so easily done. So far I was outraged only once. I really became angry when someone made sport of Kristall Nacht. A most grievous, well organized anti Semitic Nazi atrocity on the Ninth of November 1938. And how quickly the world forgets.,How quickly Americans forgot that the blood of hundreds of thousands Americans drenched the soil of Europe, how many millions of dead World War II and Nazism extracted. I was at ground zero, but post World War II generations tend to call me weird and what have you. But maybe my generation was not better about World War I.
"...We together with Gorbachev, ended the cold war..." - Scott. Another lib attempt to rewrite history?
Has anyone noticed that we are becoming the limp wristed embarassment that our nation was under Jimmy Carter?It's not a coincidence...it's about who's in charge.It's also not a coincidence that our chicken of a leader has his AG announce that we are giving terroorists the rights of citizens while he is conveniently out of the country on a Friday afternoon to avoid the news cycle.I say bring the troops home now,not because they could not attain victory but because this administration is using them as a political tool, will not back them and is creating an environment where they will be trapped by the ever growing numbers of Islamic terrorists encouraged by Obamanites abroad,at home and on this blog.Obama will sacrifice our soldiers as well as ourselves to serve his agenda and none of the results will be a coincidence but the "Bush Haters" will continue to dwell in their non-reality till we are all dead or subservient.Meanwhile our lame chicken governor ,who has a state that is imploding, seems to think he needs a little R and R and takes a trip he's been wanting to take for a while...this is what passes as leadership these days.
Why am I not suprised TC is ignorant on "Cold War" history.
What kind of a homophobe comment is "limp wristed" we have gays in our military making your comment stand without merit.
"But maybe my generation was not better about World War I."
No kidding.
"Punative peace proves problematic" Wiki answer #3 to Lessons learned from WWI?
Rich (Boy, do I hate America)/ Isabell (Queen of Denmark)-
Apparently you don't like my solution. Fair enough. So instead of posting your typical snide, condescending criticisms, how about thoughts on a solution? Although the Queen of Denmark has accused me of using this blog as a "chat room", in the true spirit of the decrepit aristocracy she longs to belong to, she doesn't think that requirement applies to her.
Well, Queenie and Hate America we're waiting.
"...she longs to belong to,..." JoeFeldon congratulations on the perfect weld of hilarity and truth.
Typical response Joe, very typical.
The Orthodox Patriarch Pavle, of Serbia, has passed away during the first elections in "independent" Kosovo at age 95. He was Bishop there when in 1989 was assaulted by Albanian youths and subsequently hospitalized for three months. His body lies in state at Saint Michael the Archangel Cathedral in Belgrade. The Vatican has yet to formally recognize Kosovo independent of Serbia. Godspeed Patriarch Pavle.
Rich...you're reading something into it that is not there.It means weak as when you shake someone's hand and it's like a wet noodle.I think you owe an apology to the homosexuals on this blog.
Not so fast Brian, let me take you out of ignorance on this homophobic comment for just a moment;
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=limp+wristed
An appology is owed where it origniated from, you.
Farlex Free Dictionary online:limp-wristed (informal)
a man who is limp-wristed seems weak and lacks the qualities that people usually admire in a man. My mother liked him though I suspect my father thought he was a bit limp-wristed.
Excuse me Rich, you and your mumu mentor should retire from the baiting game, you are both awful at it. It just makes both of you look real stupid. To be stupid is one thing, but you don't have to spend days proving it, we believe both of you.
OK, but what's your suggestion for resolving these issues?
Speaking of the limp wristed, Obama continues to embarrass our Country abroad. He obsequiously bowed to the Japanese emporer. The photo is all over the internet. His recent bow was even more pronounced than the one he gave to the Saudi monarch. That is a startling breach of protocol on Obama's part. Our President should not be bowing to anyone. I never thought I'd live to see a bigger pansy in the White House than Jimmy Carter.
In addition, Obama twice refused to answer a question from a Japanese reporter as to whether is was right that the U.S. dropped nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The video is also all over the internet. A president unashamed of being an American would have answered, "yes, it was the right decision for America. It avoided the need to invade your country, therey saving countless American lives in a war your country belligerently started with us, but we finished." Unfortunately, Obama, the liberal world citizen, whose views were cultivated by Reverand Wright, Bill Ayers and Columbia, Harvard and University of Chicago professors, once again could not bring himself to defend America abroad.
"limp wristed literally means homosexual, as in you make your wrist limp when you talk and you say "OMG NO WAY" alot." (Urban Dictionary)
Rich used correct reference. Bart succeeded spitting out some more venom.
When these bitter little personalities get frustrated losing their own game, they act like a dropped sack of cheap marbles.
Actually the definition of 'limp-wristed' depends on what generation you are from. Bart and Brian are both right in their definition and I suppose the urban dictionary is correct for today's usage. As a child I was taught to have a firm handshake because it shows confidence, capability, strength. Those without a firm handshake (limp-wristed) were considered disinterested, weak, etc. Words change meaning over time for example in my day, 'gay' meant happy and carefree; nowadays it denote homosexuality. Si I suppose the only one who deserves an apology is Webster and his dictionary.
Correct premise about the dictionaries. But what ever it means, how did Rich deserve to be stuck with it in the first place. Rich is entitled to his anti-war views as much as the hawks to their opinions. I certainly dont blame Webster for some posts being positively hostile...and certainly hostile to me. hahahaha! For a while it is funny, but after a while it gets boring.
Rich got "stuck with it" because he wanted to make something out of nothing. He then placed his unnatural template on Brian's perfectly useful expression in english. Rich actually believed he had a reason to insult him with a typical baiting stereotype that really has no useful description outside of his circle and an urban dictionary. Then he displayed his poor judgement in an otherwise normal social interaction by insisting on an apology when none was owed. I believe that is an accurate description of the circumstances, thanks for asking.
Bart-
You'll notice that like Rich, Isabell completely avoided the opportunity I presented to make a constructive suggestion on this topic. Instead she shifted to assuming her usual position of a victim when challenged. She's right about one thing though- her pattern is getting a bit boring.
Joe that's part of her aloof status-ex-european- stuck-in-America persona. If it isn't her idea then it's not one. Like TC mentioned elsewhere longing to belong to some remnant of aristocracy. Trust me these alliances are partial thickness. The village people can be assured that if liberal aristocracy is ever successful in taking this country over, somebody will be dancing on the table in a layer of gold paint.
Joe, you and the rest resort to name calling when others disagree with your view(s). Are all of you worthy of any type of constructive civil discussion.
Maybe if this Country can rid itself of arrogance and ignorance and petty partisanship we can move toward something as simple as civil communication.
Rich...your "limp wristed" attempt to make me look like a homophobe or ignorant is part of your so-called reality.It may be so in your mind or some obscure dictionary but I meant it as weak...according to my reality.If that's the best you can do...you must have a "limp wristed" grasp on reality...I suggest you do some mental wrist curls and your grip may improve.Meanwhile I will continue with my 12oz.curls and fork lifts(Murray's dictionary for drinking ale and eating food)...Mr.Estupido(aka.amiguito de Rich)...No te metas en lo que no te importa.
Apparently, I "avoided the opportunity to make constructive suggestion on the topic." According to Joe Feldon.
The topic is "Schwarzenegger will visit troops in Iraq." What suggestion could I possibly make. I am confident that the governor and his staff are quite capable of taking care of the arrangements. But it's a moot point since the topic seems to have been changed to "Rich" and "Isabell " by a small number of bloggers .
I acknowledged Mr. Boren's information. I did not expect that it would be misconstrued, being an invitation to furnish a plan for the reform of the United States Armed Forces, the United States Government and suggestions how to conduct the wars in Iraq and in Afghanistan.
But any comments, concerning the mistranslation of the given topic would be but hypothetical because (as I have pointed out) the topic has become "Rich" and/or Isabell. Mr. Feldon, what do your daughters (who are teachers) think of their Dad's intellectual outpourings? My marbles may rattle (correct, Mr. Feldon, it was not your morsel of wisdom) but at least I still got all of my marbles. And I don't feel being a victim. To the contrary.... Oh! By the way! My daughter laughed out loud about her mother (by innuendo) being called a slug by an erstwhile, self-proclaimed political guru.
I think that stupid question you asked about Joe's family is over the top Isabell. By the way, I would never ever refer to you as a slug. That would be unfair to at least one party, but I do know about the nature of marbles, they don't rattle like you did.
Brian thanks for justifying my last comment, yet again.
Rich,Rich,Rich...read your last post and tell me if it makes sense.You talk about civil discourse and yet you have nothing of substance to say other than "I hate Bush and blame him for everything" and you call me ignorant and a homophobe based on your own view of the term "limp wristed".Are you really that myopic and petty?...I hope not.Get in the game and offer up something that takes originality and intelligence.Here,I'll take a try...I think Obama's intent as to trying the terrorists in NY is only an attempt to put our intelligence agency along with Bush/Cheney on trial and will compromise our security by exposing information that should not be exposed,the terrorist will say he was not read his rights and that he was subjected to torture and may go free...What say you?
Not one to be left out, I must add to this intellectual debate. I found my childhood marbles in my old trunk a few days ago; even the pretty green "boulder" that I used to win most the rest with. I never gambled with my steelies cause they were too pretty. I've always had a strong handshake and so do my children. I'm a pacifist until you tick me off, then you're meat. I'm bitter too but it will take you a pitcher of marguaritas for me to tell ya'll why. I don't drink ale much but like to hang with those who do. As for Schwartzenegger... so which Terminator movie did you like best? I like the first one. The troops?... They keep our country free so we can waste time like this on blogging. That's all I've got to add.. darlin's. I think you get my point. Now cut it out!!!
Isabell-
I hope I am not as angry as you when I reach your age. You have my sympathies.
Brian Murray! I am not familiar with it, but I shall seek out that particular song. Hubby has a vast LP, tape and CD country music library. The only Canadian I have is the late Stan Rogers; 'Born in Halifax" folk music, mostly regional and nautical themes.
RE: Joe Feldon. The only post that made me angry was Bart Turnipseed using Kristall Nacht for his inane name calling (which I am sure he thinks is clever and creative). Kristall Nacht November 9. 1938 was one of the most grievous anti Semitic Nazi atrocities. Indeed we are born equal; but different people travel different roads to different destinations. For some people it's VIP ; for some it's not... my background happens to be the former...and that's that.
I am calling for Eugenia 1956 (or whatever) HELP! Though it has nothing to do with "Schwarzenegger will visit troops in Iraq."
Kim Tanksley! I do agree. It (and we know what) has become an irritant. And now I must get ready for my pacemaker checkup. Is there a cyber icon or something for keeping the fingers crossed for good luck?
It is unfortunate that six million European citizens suffered transgressions at the hands of each other, during an aggressive series of political events that occurred under the eye of all nations existing in 1938. That Isabell Lawson finds it necessary to squeeze this lemon so many times...well I was born in 1955 and do not subscribe to the bait on her recurring hook. The popular tactic of rounding up anyone of my generation for misdeeds of that past is on its best merits unfair and irrational. I have no apology for no harm intended toward anyone, and I don't care what notion she wants to construct from my original statement. She can drag her needle in this groove all year long if she wants.