Catholic, Lutheran bishops call for health care reform

So are these bishops Socialists or Nazis or both?

Mr. Morgan; quite correctly characterized the beehive blog: "... free-wheeling free speech forum!" But at times, one could get the uncomfortable impression of being exposed to a KKK fanzine.

fan·zine: An amateur-produced magazine written for a subculture of enthusiasts devoted to a particular interest:
( Free Online Dictionary )

So anyone for health care reform is either a Nazi or a socialist. What ever happened to intelligence in this debate?

Nobody disagrees that health care needs reform. The current bill is not the reform that is needed and it seems the authors of this commentary have no problem instructing the government on what it should do. I wonder if they would be as sanguine about the notion of the government instructing the Church on its responsibilities. I guess these these authors believe that the separation of church and state only applies in specific circumstances.

Crazy people do not know that they are crazy. Convincing a homeless person that they have an addiction/dysfunction which got them to where they are is no easy task. The responsibility should be placed on the individual. People need to want to help themselves. With generation upon generation of families who rely on welfare and other social programs, a comprehensive national healthcare program would be devastating. Working citizens would be gouged by opportunists who feel entitled to programs simply because they are born into this great nation. As a healthcare worker who sees homeless people repeatedly abuse our system in place, making coverage geared for Homeless Joe Crackpipe will not better anything. Anyone who is in need of medical attention will never be refused an ambulance ride. For many years already, Medical and Medicare have been used as an unofficial form of national healthcare. Opening those gates would reward the ignorant and would take away from people who have been responsible. Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. We don't need any more programs. We must encourage the individual to be responsible.

I found this passage to be very telling.
"Rising taxes and premiums prop up a public system groaning under the weight of too many uninsured. Increasingly companies purge their rolls of the most ill and cap services. We are morally bound to prioritize the health of families over the wealth of a few, and stop rationing care based on who can pay."

Although I'm sure they have good intentions, and I share in their well meaning, but their solution goes against the very doctine that they preach. In that passage they are saying that they agree the use of force and coercion to part one man's money to pay for the health care of another is morally correct. Well I am reminded about a passage in the bible which addresses such actions that they endorse. Thou shall not steal.

Paul other than your first sentence I completely agree with you. The degree of insight by those who suffer mental illness varies. The cause of the mental disturbance has alot to do with that capacity. An adult whos drug experience of choice was the inhalation of gold paint throughout his teen years can be limited in this respect. However, many people afflicted with mental disorders can give an accurate personal account of many if not all of the psycho/social mile signs of schizophrenia which they have passed along the way.

In response to Scot | November 7, 2009 8:20 PM "So anyone for health care reform is either a Nazi or a socialist. What ever happened to intelligence in this debate?"

Answer: Being under constant attack, it yielded to the openly espoused evil on this blog. Intelligence without humanity is but basic (animal) instinct. Fact: The relative minute percentage of homeless habitual derelicts are not the concern of every decent human being, politician and the clergy of every mainstream religion. The concern is for the millions of the homeless and neo-poverty-stricken children and their families due to the global economic crisis. I am off to pursuits that are built on humane principals. So long! for now. The "bizarre?" Isabell Lawson (Mrs.)

I pondered this one awhile to determine where my own opinion lies. Frankly, it was tough. It is difficult to qualify how, in a country as rich as ours, why there are so many that have to do without. With the medical advances we have today, why some people suffer and in some cases die needlessly. At the same time our Constitution gives us the right for the pursuit of happiness. It does not set up entitlements. I think the handouts the government already gives have essentially weakened our country. There are too many career takers that have turned into generations of takers. It is not the government's responsibility to hold everyone's hand, so to speak. Our country is badly in need of a little "tough love." That said even those paying for their own insurance are having a hard time with healthcare. My parents have Medicare and pay for supplemental insurance. The doctors that will accept patients with that kind of coverage are few these days. My father's doctor of 20 years just "released" all his patients with Medicare; even those paying for supplemental insurance. My father has to pay an additional $1,500 a year directly to his doctor for the "priviledge" of being his patient. There is something wrong when even those who are paying for insurance can't get medical care. We need healthcare reform but our country does not need another hand out. These two men want to point out that we are our brother's keeper but the Bible doesn't say the government is our brother's keeper. I am a Christian, I am a Lutheran but not all taxpayers are. By expecting the government to follow a religious principle doesn't that in fact force these other taxpayers into supporting something they may not choose to support? Isn't freedom of religion a big part of why our country is here? I am uncomfortable that these men appear to be making this statement as religious leaders and not as individuals. There is supposed to be separation of church and state and I think it is wrong for religious leaders to step into the political ring. The problems of our society are HUGE but they can not be solved by government. The solutions must come from families, friends, churches, congregations and individuals. That's were the focus of religious leaders should be. No government can make society right itself. People need a hand up not a hand out. We need healthcare reform to the extent that graft, inefficiency, waste are eliminated so that we are more able to do for ourselves and others in need without being ripped off. Healthcare needs to be attainable but we the people have to do the attaining ourselves.

Does health care need reform? Yep, sure does. Now the issue becomes "by who and who can do it best."

Should government and an ever-increasing bureaucracy do it? Well, looking at their track record will probably give us an answer.

Let’s look around for some of their success stories - if any. The US Postal Service? Social Security? Cash-for-Clunkers? Amtrak? Public School System?

Medicare? It’s bureaucratic nightmare, full of waste and fraud. The Government Accountability Office estimated that no less than one-third of all Medicare disbursements were improper or fraudulent. ("Medicare was so lax in its oversight that it was approving orthopedic shoes for amputees").

The government can’t run a flu program and we expect them to run a Health Care program?

And then there is that 1.2 trillion dollars? It’s going to come from somewhere.

Is it true that the only government bureaucracy that has come in under budget is the Office Of Civil War Pensions?

To paraphrase the late George Wallace: "The government couldn’t run a three car funeral if you spotted them two cars."

Let’s call this Health Care fiasco what it is: An assault on liberty, an attempt at power and control by happy-face socialist totalitarians.

Gathering from the US Census,and Families USA, uninsured children come from working families. The vast majority of uninsured children (88.2 percent) come from families where at least one parent works, and more than two-thirds of uninsured children—or 68.5 percent—live in households where at least one family member works full-time, year-round. The five states with the largest number of uninsured children are Texas, California, Florida, New York, and Georgia. Together, the uninsured children in these five states account for nearly half of all uninsured children in the country (48.3 percent). More than 15 percent of children in each of these states are uninsured, compared to a national median of 9.2 percent. Congress voted to reauthorize the State Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP), which would have expanded health coverage throughout the nation to approximately 4 million uninsured children. Although Congress passed the legislation with broad bipartisan support, the legislation failed when President Bush vetoed it . And those numbers do not include the children of the homeless due to the recent home mortgage crisis that created unemployment and instant poverty among the traditional middleclass.

"Healthcare needs to be attainable but we the people have to do the attaining ourselves." Now you 4 million children without health coverage get out and start "attaining" yourselves. It is quite correct that the Bible does not make government our brother's keeper. But the Bible tells us that Jesus Christ forbade us Christians allowing children to be hurt. I would not have another child living with me, but I do go that extra mile to help to make it possible that children do not have to suffer. I am still capable of supporting or opposing lawmakers, and I can give financial contribution the best to what our household budget allows. I try to subscribe to the tenet that it is better to light a candle than it is to curse the dark.

Kim Tanksley! I give you credit for not intentionally being callous. But writing in tired clichés and platitudes can too easily be misread.

"happy-face socialist totalitarians."

Medicare B the evil socialists (80%)and conservative capitalist supplemnetary insurance (20%)allowed us to survive very serious health failings. A hospital stay for draining my husbands lungs of deadly fluids from bacterial pneumonia, and my cardiac pace maker. Ger rid of the cheating not the system. Hire people who are willing to do what they are being payed for. That Medicare is being cheated left and right of billions of dollars only tends to indicate that too many Amerticans are dishonest, not that medicare is bad.

When President Truman tried to join the modern world and set up a single-payer system the AMA successfully lobbied , and it went away, but now over 70%of doctors would prefer a single-payer system along with almost all nurses, the reason is that the insurance industry mucked it up with red tape, layers of beaurocracy, handcuffing the doctors practices and obscene,unchecked profit-taking. They're now poised to reap the biggest windfall profits in their history,(well, since the bailout anyway) and are spending lavishly on capitol hill to ensure it, (w/bailout money)...At my church the emphasis is on compassion and kindness and we share the position of the Bishops, is that not the foundation of Christianity?...this talk of 'personal responsibility' is fine and well but doesn't comport with my idea of Christian charity, nor the teachings of Jesus. The fact is, in our country, because of the insurance industry, a serious injury or disease, regardless of 'coverage' can mean bankruptcy,...or worse. In Europe/Canada that's not how it plays out, there, if you're sick or hurt you just go to the doctor, it's very simple...The trade-off here is an obscene military expenditure that must maintain over a 1000 military bases in over 100 countries and will apparently always be at war...it cost about a trillion dollars this year,nobody knows for sure,not Congress, not even the Pentagon. Our spending on war is too big to calculate and seems to only grow as the big-ticket item in our debt. This sort of global hegemony and policy of fear and loathing begs the question; "are we really a 'Christian nation' or just paranoids with a maxed-out credit card and no new ideas?" There's plenty of money for a brand new health care system that provides the same care that our elected officials receive-for every citizen, there's plenty of money, but it must taken away from the scared-e-cats.

Isabell, ha ha, I would hardly expect children to pay for their own health insurance but MANY children have parents who do not put healthcare for their children as a high priority. Soon after my husband and I had our first child we relocated to a new city and new job so I could stay at home with the baby. Everything we had went into the move, the house and the job only to have my husband laid off four months later due to an economic downturn. To survive we sold everything we had, cars, furniture, treasures, even some heirlooms, took any odd job we could find until one of us found stable employment. All during that time, the one thing we sprung for was health insurance for the baby. That was high priority. I believe a good portion of those uninsured children you speak about are uninsured because it is not a high priority. Those are the people I find it difficult to support. If they were out of the system, I think supporting those really in need would be much more attainable and sustainable. That is not callous; that is common sense and fair. That is where the churches should come in; teaching society where their priorities should lie; family, fellow man, the needy. That is not government's roll.

I am not being intentionally or unintentionally callous. I am just not speaking within the confines of political correctness. Sometimes, reality, the truth, can be ugly. That doesn't make it wrong. It is my opinion. I own it. No one else has to like it.

Kim Tanksley! What a shame that most of America's poor are not as conscientious as you are; and that they decide that health care for their children is a low priority. But since you believe that to be true, any further comment (from me to you) on the subject would be superfluous.

"osage orange" Maybe there is more than one Jesus Christ. One for those who believe in HIS teachings, and one for those who deal in reality.
Of course to overcome the lower instincts of our socalled reality was the very center of HIS ministry on earth. It was the socalled reality that led to the crucyfixion. And charity poses absolutely no conflict with separation of church and state. Jesus of Nazareth believed to render onto Caesar.....

"KRISTALL NACHT
The night of November 9, 1938, on which the Nazis coordinated an attack on Jewish people and their property in Germany and German-controlled lands.
[German, night of (broken) glass : Kristall, crystal (from Middle High German , from Old High German cristalla , from Latin crystallus, crystallum; see crystal) + Nacht, night (from Middle High German naht...")

I was there. The Jewish Neudecker Temple (synagogue) was not far from our House. I was only 11 years old (71 years ago) but I still remember the feel in the stomach pit when I heard the attack. Kim Tanksley that is just one of my memories from 1938 to post World War II. Don't you feel a bit out of your league preaching to me that reality can be ugly? And may Good continue to keep Middle Class America from experiencing the truly real and ugly.

I don't remember ever reading a complete sentence wherein U.S. government doctrine establishes any benefit using term charity. No citizen is ever provided aid by the state described by such a term. Ultimately medical attention will be paid for by those with the money to do so. They already pay more than necessary to subsidize those who don't have the finances. The democrats seek to remedy the Obama administrations failure in creating jobs by expanding a welfare state with a calculated evolving greater dependence and a sure voting block for future political initiatives. This block will be recipients of the largest coercive shift of non-tax deductable charitable contributions in the history of America.

The federal government can cost-effectively operate military and Indian health care systems. It has failed to reform social security, medicare, and medicaid. It's cash for clunkers program was a joke. It declared a national health emergency and assume control of vaccine production and distribution so that supplies are inadequate and only Club Gitmo, Wall Street, and our prisons got served.

What makes anyone with half a brain think it might screw up our current healthcare system?

Liberals are thinking with their hearts and not their brains. They are confusing doing a good deed with producing cost-effective results.

It's time to pull the pin!