Downtown parking myths

Parking is a problem for downtown, but I'm not sure if cost in the biggest issue. Yes, people are used to giant shopping centers with vast lots of free parking (and that's a whole other discussion). But I'm not convinced people wouldn't pay for parking if it was easy to find and use. Give people free parking and I think you'll still find people have no idea WHERE to park.

I think a bigger problem is Boren's assumption that we need more cars downtown. Will free parking make Fresno's downtown healthy or vibrant? No.

Is parking cost what keeps people from going downtown? I'd say it's pretty low on the list of what keeps people away.

If people find value in spending time downtown, they will come. I already went downtown to a few ball games in the evening with my kids.

Unless my arithmetic is totally erroneous, the revenue from citations (tickets) is about 1/3 of the entire parking revenue.
That this is a 'big junk" is the understatement of the year. It reminds me of the ye auld speed/traffic traps of yore. As has been pointed out by others as well as by myself....it's not just the cost of parking, but paying for parking so I could hike to my destination. I often parked at the Courthouse Park. I had drunks hit me up for money, and lechtes being interested in my 5'8''; 37/24/37.

Yet mall stores kept this classic clotheshorse's and daughter's backs covered at the cost of a king's ransom. Shoes as well. And there were the furniture stores, a terrific store for kitchen gadgets like rosette irons etc.. Even my Underwood manual typewriter which I still have, came from around there. My record collection was accumulated at the two music stores. But I got tired of toting bags and packages back to the car that was parked not anywhere near the Fulton Mall. And I went to Rhodes department store as soon as it opened its doors at the Manchester Center. The Tower District had a lot to offer as well. Fresno is neither denizen nor consumer friendly. But the Fulton Mall's art and flora, is a treasure.

I can say that charging for parking does effect my coming downtown. Sure the location of parking is a pain but that I can work around. I am a stay at home mom with 4 kids that I homeschool. I think I am the kind of person they want to come downtown but the parking is prohibitive. I can't justify taking the kids downtown to have Robeks over by the convention center, walk around and maybe hit a thrift store if I have to pay for parking too. I like Fulton Mall but once again the parking. I can find free parking but it takes to much effort to find it.

I don't own a car going downtown STILL is not something I love to do. Isabell hit on one reason why, it is not that safe.

I get off any courthouse bus and walk to Fulton usually for the farmers market. It is not a safe walk. I am talking in the day time. It is a fantastic farmers market. I just do not enjoy feeling stalked.

Jim,

I want to thank you for keeping this topic alive. I don't know why but out of all the issues this city has, this issue (along with transportation) I am much passionate about. I guess it has something to do with wanting to be proud of the city I live in.

I think this topic is just one of many in the much bigger issue that is downtown revitalization. Unfortunately things will never change downtown as long there is this mentality of people like Ms. Lawson and other who share her view that "downtown is not a safe place." Now I could be wrong but isn't police headquarters downtown? what safer place is there to be? Are you telling me that the city police patrol everywhere else in the city other than downtown? The only thing scary about downtown is the almost dead silence there of inactivity after 6pm...oh and when the grizzles aren't in town.

Things will also never change as long as 1) the city continues to see their residents as numbers, dollar $igns or sources of revenue than actual residents; and 2) to continue to employee persons with little or no vision of a vibrant downtown. The people in place now are more worried about job security, maintaining revenue, than actually making a few waves, putting their positions on the line, to actually make a difference in their own town. I don't know about you but i'd be embarassed if I were a a highly elected or appointed official about my downtown. No wonder the other major city in this state treats us like the red-headed stepchild, because we are that red-headed stepchild! We can't even get pull our own city out of the 20th century why should any other major city or sacramento for that matter listen to anything we have to say about how to conduct business in the 21st century?

Don't get me wrong I love this town! I guess I just can't stand to see it not living up to its potential.

Here's to picking up the pace on downtown revitalization, and perhaps a weekly or monthly update in the Fresno Bee about the progress or lack there of, of downtown revitalization (Cheers!).

Well Bart....by definition,
vigilante: any person who takes the law into his or her own hands, as by avenging a crime.

If you shoot someone who breaks into your house in self defense, don't you also take the law into your own hands?

I'm just asking mind you, I'm out in the country and I wouldn't hesitate to shoot if a couple of guys broke into my house and threatened my family.

John, I don't quite know how to respond to your comment about the walk from Courthouse Park to the Market on the Mall as "not being safe." Statistically, the numbers don't bear that out. Crime downtown is low, both in relative and real terms. Now, obviously if you don't feel safe, that's the real issue, and perception is ultimately an individual thing. As they say, perception is reality to some extent. But I also know people who don't feel safe in San Francisco, Paris, New York, or any big city, or at Fashion Fair, Fresno State, or taking a walk on their street in North Fresno after dark.

Re: NerdMom's comments
You make good points. The first goal of any good downtown is to be walkable - meaning have a good concentration of activities and retail in a concentrated area, so you don't have to park and drive to every single stop. In Downtown Fresno we're sort of halfway there. We have walkable blocks and streets, and pockets of activity, such as by Robeks on Kern Street but those individual pockets are still too isolated. Also, for a customer such as yourself with four kids, I can understand why emphasis on walking a few blocks isn't the most convenient thing.

That said - how about this for a free parking Downtown itinerary?

Stop #1 - Teazer's at The Galleria at N and Kern Streets. There is free parking at the Galleria in their lot, for customers. Stop by Tezaer's and pick up an Iced Honolulu Tea, with lime, apple and orange. It's lightly sweet and very refreshing. Robeks' Juice is across "N" Street in the Crescent Building, so if the kids want a smoothie, you can go there too!

Stop #2 - You mentioned some of the cool thrift stores downtown. Well, they're located close to each other on Van Ness and several have free parking! Stop first at Vintage Square (Van Ness & Inyo) and park in their lot for free. There's Vintage Voola, American Vintage Thrift, Emerald Thrift and DAV all on that block. Vintage Voola has the most amazing retro stuff!

Stop #3 - Yoshi Now is another retro shop with cool stuff, AND they have free parking, just around the corner at Mono & Broadway. You never know what interesting things you'll find at Yoshi Now.

Stop #4 - After a day of shopping, why not finish it off with lunch or dinner at Joe's Steakhouse - they have EXCELLENT burgers, not to mention the steaks. They are located on Van Ness, right next to the Spiral Parking Garage at Van Ness & Inyo. Park in the garage and have them validate your parking, it's free! The garage is also free after 6:00 PM & on weekends unless there's a game. If Joe's Steakhouse isn't your cup of tea, go to Hero's across the street, they also have their own free parking lot on Van Ness down the block.

Ok maybe it is just me, but feel free to take a bus to the downtown courthouse. My ex-wife feels the same when she goes there.

And yes its the courthouse I would think its the last place I would see hookers, pimps, and assorted gangbangers...oh wait I have that backwards. *shrug

Like I said parking is not what keeps everyone from going downtown. I am all for a vibrant wonderful downtown. One of the biggest ways you can tell any city is thriving is an investment in its core. I will still go downtown not just for the farmers market but because tucked in down there is a mom and pop shop that has the best hummus anywhere. But I would go more frequently if I felt safer.

What are you talking about F. Jones. If you would have read my comments instead of finding fault with them, you would have realized that I was talking of yesteryear when there were still decent stores downtown and on the Fulton Mall. I never was afraid of being murdered, but I never was left alone either. I haven not parked downtown for decades, but I am certain that the drunks, hitting people up for money are still there. Like it or not; John has every right to want to be un-accosted on his way to the farmers market. In civilized places pedestrian are not being bothered by drunkards and the like. Are you with the Chamber of Commerce or something. It's not John's and or my mentality that need adjusting.

What are you talking about F. Jones. If you would have read my comments instead of finding fault with them, you would have realized that I was talking of yesteryear when there were still decent stores downtown and on the Fulton Mall. I never was afraid of being murdered, but I never was left alone either. I haven not parked downtown for decades, but I am certain that the drunks, hitting people up for money are still there. Like it or not; John has every right to want to be un-accosted on his way to the farmers market. In civilized places pedestrian are not being bothered by drunkards and the like. Are you with the Chamber of Commerce or something. It's not John's and or my mentality that needs adjusting.

Good for you! john zacharias. It's quite manifest that some bloggers are less interested in discussing the topic than they are out to assail the substance and integrity of other bloggers' comments. I don't know what hummus is. But that you should travel all the way downtown for it it must delicious. bon appetite!

Self-defense would typically be used to prevent a crime or to stop one in progress. Vigilantism is inflicting punishment for a crime already committed. Big difference.

Right!!!! common sense. And I would like to add that vigilantism is often an outside of the law activity of "...inflicting punishment..." by a mindless mob, and it is far from being vigilant. And I am sorry for extending the off topic digressing. But I could not resist to agree with common sense.

Panhandling is not unique to Downtown Fresno. Pick any downtown district in the US that is vibrant, full of activity, investment and entertainment, and I guarantee that you will find someone on the street asking for money. Last August a friend and I were verbally assaulted outside city hall, after not giving the guy on the sidewalk money. In downtown Philadelphia. I've never had that happen in Fresno, or anything even close. Take New York, Chicago, St. Louis, Boston, San Francisco, etc and you'll find they all have the same problems, yet they are still vibrant urban centers.

Yes Fresno has a city-wide homeless problem, and panhandling does exist. (Shaw & 41, Blackstone & Shaw anyone?) But it's pretty safe to say that issue alone is not what is holding Downtown Fresno back. It's the lack of OTHER, conventional business activity on the street that is the problem. You won't notice the guy on the corner asking for a quarter if you're surrounded by 250 other people who just got out of a show, or are leaving dinner, etc.

Re: Hummus - it's a type of Middle Eastern dip made of cooked chickpeas and spices. Great to dip pita bread in, with olive oil. My favorite hummus downtown is at Kebab Express in the newly restored Virginia Hotel Building at Kern & L Streets.

First, LOL I just saw a Fresno City Parking Service vehicle in River Park!...I guess nowhere is safe to park in the city now a days...Appearantly somebody from the city read that Jim parked there this past weekend for FREE and said, "FREE parking where people go to shop, hangout, have fun and actually have something to do, WTF? Not on my watch!" lol...and then sent someone out there to check it out.

And second let apologize to Ms. Lawson...she did not specifically come out and say she was afraid of downtown or that downtown wasn't safe, that quote came from Mr. Zacharias who had said, "Isabell hit on one reason why, it is not that safe." However she did prove my point about the mentality that the majority of Fresnans have about their downtown: that you can't walk anywhere downtown without being botherd by some bum asking for money or some pervert undressing you with their eyes. Plus she even said that the last time she was there was ten years ago and just assumes everything is the same...I mean is that all it takes to be express an opinion on an issue these days, research based on assumptions? Heck if thats the case I solved the case of who killed J.F.K. and the real goings on behind area 51 along time ago. No but seriously, I apologize for putting words in her mouth.

I was actually very specific about the type of problems I normally have while I traverse downtown. The courthouse is where all of the buses drop off at. I was and still am relaying my own recent personal experience. Bums do not bother bother me. I was once a bum I have panhandled. Thank god I am one step removed from that at this point in my life.

On the other hand I simply do not feel very safe walking around the areas I need to go after getting off the bus at the courthouse. This is my own personal experience and yours may be vastly different. I only give my own humble reason for not loving downtown as much as I could. There is a criminal element that hangs out in that area. That element is palpable at times where it should be very safe to walk around. I do not mind if you don't believe me thats the point of having different opinions.

Before you make up your mind about what I said take this opportunity to take any bus to the downtown courthouse. Walk to shelter b c d or a. Tell me how safe it feels. Sometimes there is a nice guy that will offer to sell you fragrant oils. Its not all bad I see many decent people there as well. If I had a car I would certainly try and look at downtown from your perspective.

It's good, john zacharias, that you situation has changed for the better. Though blogger Joe Moore was of different opinion, he choose to debate the issue, while F. Jones is browbeating. We can ignore it, but he is stuck with himself. So who is really better off?

I have lived around here for 57 years plus, and was a community activist for about 50 years. Downtown and the Fulton Mall did not self-destruct. And the parking situation is not going to change to be more patron-friendly until we get an administration that is willing to get off its status quo tush. I have lived in Vienna Austria and Manchester England, I have visited Bratislava, Budapest, Ireland, London and Paris, and the only place where I was accosted with regularity was in Fresno California. Especially at the Courthouse Park and at the Bus Depot where the Moyers' Stage (bus) had its terminus. That I had a child in a stroller did not deter those reprobates. So it was unsatisfactory parking or the bus. And there is one thing I am sure about....I had not been chosen by the gods, the Furies or whatever to be a sole victim. In 1952 I sailed on the USS General Hodges from Lucarno to New York. With lots of time on hand, I had many nice talks with one of the ship's officers. To make a long story short, when I told him that my destination was Fresno California, he called it "the dumping lot of heaven." Those very words.

I shall part with the best wishes for a good and blessed summer (in spite of today's 109).
Mrs. Isabell Lawson.

Re: NerdMom
I should have also suggested taking your kids to the new Bob the Builder exhibit at the Fresno Met! The Met has free parking in their lot right across the street from the museum building at Calaveras and Van Ness. Bob the Builder runs till September 27th.
http://www.fresnomet.org/bob-the-builder.html

Arte Americas, the Valley's Latino arts center and museum is also on that corner.
http://www.arteamericas.org/

My scrumptious lunch must have enlivened my brain cells. The two music stores on the Fulton mall were Hokett & Cowan and Sherman Clay (I am uncertain of the spelling of the names.) I spent much time to listening and buying records. My LP collection is just short of 100. Let's take a little break from the sometimes not so friendly exchange of comments.

I was enthralled by the voice of the little Folger coffe bean that went prancing and singing across the TV screen. I was in the store's listening booth with the door slightly ajar, and low and behold, in wafted the voice of the Folger coffee bean.

"Who was that singing just now?"
"I don't know. I was not listening." The clerk answered
"But I must know!"
"I'll find out." After a few minutes he came back to me. "Ma'am; that was Glenn Yarbrough , BABY THE RAIN MUST FALL.
"Do you have it?"
"Sure!"
"I'll take it!" And off I went with my RCA Victor LPS Stereo. And his voice still gives me goose bumps. I am going to get one of those machines that copies LPs onto CDs. But I am sure that I won't find it downtown Fresno.

I am curious how many posts a topic , trips down memory lane in downtown Fresno, would garner? Could we make a time rise again by sheer willpower? Because any unlawfully acting elements can be controlled by city- power. The parking situation could be solved by municipal willpower paired with know-how-power.