Just don't get sick, kids

The quality of a healthy life is ever diminishing in our Country. Maybe Redpeach can explain the silverlining on this one, or attack Russ on this as well?

Although Russ hasn't appologized to Mike Villines on the jacket issue, at least not publically.

I though President Elect Obama compaigned on the issue of "Change". Not doing things like we have in the past. Asking Senator Clinton to be on his cabinet as some of the others he is choosing is NOT change. It's the same-o-same-o politics as before. Simply put, Obama was not truthful in his campaign promises. So what else is new.

Hi Jack,

I'm not sure if Clinton is in Obama's cabinet, and cabinet members do not make ultimate policy decisions, rather collectively offer advice to make decisions. Also Obama will likely seek advice of experts outside of his cabinet on some matters as well. I would predict Obama policy making will be a far far departure from Bush's style that alienated differences of thought from cabinet and Whitehouse Advisors which gave them no choice but to resign.

Also, concluding that Obama's campaign promises were not truthful is presumptuous especially since he is not our President yet.

The biggest hurdle of "Change" is not having McCain elected, the people have spoken on that already.

Rich
The people have spoken on the definition of marriage as well, passing Prop 8. But I don't hear you libs having a problem with the rabid No on Prop 8 crowd, who are having a real problem accepting that they are on the losing end. They have gone way beyond making disgruntled statements or peaceful protesting. Their lawlessness includes committing battery and assault, vandalism at sacred places like Mormon temples, violating the freedom of religion of worshippers by using intimidation tactics against them, making death threats, and boycotting businesses who supported Prop 8. Churches have had to hire full time security to protect their property. Do you think that might be a case of violating their freedom of religion, or speech.

These nutjobs even have what they call a 'hit list' of those who financially supported Prop 8, and are targetting them. The term sore losers doesn't do them justice. Your side are turning into anarchists, or maybe even terrorists. What else can you say about a group that stomps on an old women for rallying in support of Prop 8.

And this comes from the crowd the crows that others should be more tolerant. It seems the only language the homosexual crowd understands is blunt force. I pray the police use it soon, to put an end to this anarchy.

Just wait until all Americans are forced into government provided healthcare--socialized medicine. When there is not enough revenue... they will cut services. If you need that brain tumor removed, well, sorry, the government ran out of money for those this year. Try us back next year.

That's what all you Obamamaniacs want, right?

At the risk of sounding insensitive, yes, it is a shame but the State can't pay for something with money they no longer have. I am not interested in having government provided healthcare and even if offered will always supply my own; however, it is interesting to me that those against government healthcare are more than willing to have government pay for their healthcare. But these are poor people, right? Well, I'm not so sure. These are working parents that "earn too much to qualify for Medicare but can't afford private insurance." Is that really true? My husband and I hit some hard times and did without a lot. We gave up automobiles and fun stuff like cable, cell phones, etc., our vacations were a day at the lake with the kids and dogs... but we bought private health insurance for our children. I submit that the lack of health care for many of these families (not all) is one of priorities rather than need. The cost of cable and cell phones was enough to pay for our kid's healthcare. It wasn't that expensive. Before I'm willing to cry foul, I'd like to see what the exact qualifications are for this program and how the recipients really spend their money. I suspect that the number of folks who really NEED this program is much lower than those who use it; likely enough to lower the amount of money funneled into it. Do this with all State sponsored programs and I'll bet we'd be on our way to solving some of our budget woes.

No, what we'll get is a hybrid form of private/public healthcare. Somewhat less than most of the civilized world has, but more than what we have now.

And Redpeach, your worst-case-scenario is the reality of millions of Americans today. Those who are uninsured, and those who are insured, but their insurance doesn't cover the treatement they need.

Red,

I'm not going to defend people who do things that are against the law. You may be unwilling to understand from reading your last posts that not all people agree with lawlessness.

I do not lump all Christian Church goers with the ones who bomb health clinics.

Your generalities and name calling is so grade school or maybe thats too much credit.

Don't forget it was the Bush Administration (and a weak Congress) policies that are bringing our kids back in bodybags. Patriotic flag waving jingoism promoting war does not hold well anymore, the people have spoken to it in our last election.

Mike D.

I see you are also a healthcare industry expert. Those who suffer under socialized medicine in other countries will tell you, you are absolutely wrong about your assumption that government healthcare is superior to privatized medicine. Canadians, and Europeans know better.

This story is a shining example of what happens in government run healthcare systems (socialized medicine). Politicians get to decide if you get the medical care you need. And when they decide that our tax dollars are needed elsewhere, the people are just out of luck. Why would you or anyone else want your government to have that much power over you? That's for the birds.

How do you deduct that when the government forces everyone onto socialized medicine, it will somehow transform into better healthcare for anyone? Adding millions of people to the dependents list to a system that is already inferior to private insurance will not make a better system. It will make it worse.

Rich
I don't recall anyone convicted of bombing abortion clinics being Christians. Confused and demented isolated individuals perhaps, but not God-fearing Christians. And I have never met any Christian who condones anything of the sort, or heard any pastor do anything other than condem such actions. Where do you get the idea that this is done by Christians? Yes, there are extremists in every group.

The anarchysts against Prop 8, however, are not isolated incidences. And it is not gradeschool, as you put it, to point out how these groups are behaving. These are large groups (mobs)that are acting out all over California, and across the country, and are advertising their 'hit list' of individuals and businesses to harass, and terrorize. They are showing us that the are savvy and willing to use whatever legal, or illegal means to intimidate, and retaliate. Why would anyone watching this want homosexuals to have any more priviledges than they already have?

Healthcare: What does healthcare have to do with the Iraq War? I guess 911 has slipped your mind as the catalyst for the Afgan and Iraq War. There are times when countries, and individuals have a right to defend themselves--and this is one of them. America's brave soldiers are volunteers. If they are willing to put their lives on the line to defend our country, why is this a problem for you?

As far as the election, before you get carried away on your "the people have spoken" statement again. Perhaps you need reminding of two things:
1. The Presidential Election was not a landslide, when the popular vote was only a 6 point spread. These are the figures:

Electoral vote 365 (projected) 162 (projected)
States carried 28+DC+NE-02 21
Popular vote 66,760,924 58,279,894
Percentage 52.7% 46.0%

Compare this with a true landslide election, the 1984 election of Ronald Reagan over Mondale, with an 18 point spread:

Electoral vote 525 13
States carried 49 1+DC
Popular vote 54,455,472 37,577,352
Percentage 58.8% 40.6%

My predictions are that once Obama begins implimenting his radical leftist agenda, Americans will wake up from the trance they are in, and we will see a similar Republican win in 2012. But that is just one womans opinion, and hope.

2. How about the way you Democrats behaved for the passed 8 years, when Republicans won the White House. It did not matter that the people had spoken. America had to listen to all you moaning and crying for 8 years, and endure our Commander and Chief being slander, villified, and disrespected, like no President in my lifetime, and perhaps in U.S. History. We will see if Americans will be allowed to speak negatively of Obama? I hear Obama's first order of business will be to enact the fairness doctrine to silence talk radio. Never-mind the First Amendment:

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that expressly prohibits the United States Congress from making laws "respecting an establishment of religion" or that prohibit the free exercise of religion, laws that infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to peaceably assemble, or limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Rich...would you call "Not being blown up" in a city in the USA a form of government sponsored healthcare? I do and I'm willing to pay into it.I can see the benefits and I would suspect that most in the military understand the benefits to their families and country by their sacrifice.May God bless and protect them all.

Red as far as you not recalling violence against health clinics who claim they are Chritians go to this web site;

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm

As far as lawlessness for prop 8 apponents I still do not condone such acts.

I did not say the election was a landslide even if Obama won by one electoral vote more then needed it is still a win. Ronald Reagon winning by a landslide? And what is your point? Are you living in the past elections or present? Some of your Reagan supporters of the past changed there minds in this election, enough for McCain to loose. Why are you bringing up the past lets look to the future.

Your whole point has no substance anyway because we are talking abour FRESNO COUNTY not the national elections.

Red before looking into a crystal ball with future predictions of Obama Presidency maybe help get the Republicans house in order. Carl Rove style politics is not what the people want anymore, time for something new. Republicans need to regroup, re-tool, come back with another message rather then war mongering and flag waving.

Red stop being hypocritical your already moaning, crying and sniping Obama before he is sworn to Office.

You truely believe Bush protected our constitution? Obama has taught Constituional law while Bush's policies have trampled all over them.

I never claimed to be a healthcare expert. Nor have you, as far as I can see. But I think any reasonably informed person who isn't blinded by bias can see our system needs a lot of tweaking (or a major overhaul, better yet). Even the McCain campaign aknowledged that it needs to get better. The only difference of opinion among most reasonable people these days is which way is the best way to accomplish that.

And by the way, I know people in Europe and Canada. I don't know any who would trade their healthcare system for ours.

Red,

A wake up call, we already have goverment run healthcare its called medicare, plenty of people are happy with it. It can be considered "socialized" healthcare.

Guess what else, plenty of European Countries are happy with a nationalized system of care, it does work fine.

Again you are looking into a crystal ball, as well as listening to the health insurance companies telling you the level of care will be worse. Sure the health insurance companies will tell you will be worse off they are the ones who will be loosing profits.

I don't agree with the $700+ Billion so-called bailout of the corporations. Guess what our government is "socializing" corporations and the Bush Administration is the one leading the charge to "socialize" our Country.

I am actually interested in discussing the topic at hand. Redpeach, you've said the same thing so many times on so many blogs. O.K. we get it. Now what do you think about the budget shortfall and the Healthy Families Program? I offered a bit of a solution. What do you think the solution to be? Anybody?

Kim

I think the Carl Rove attack mentality has left many with rehtoric and empty pockets. All we have left is one cheerleader with a redpeach.

Oh yea, and Brian with the bullhorn.

A solidarity response to Mike D.

In that "socialist country" redpeach suggested "I should go back"; my grandniece is enjoying her post partum (maternity leave) for one year with full pay. And my nephew just returned from a health recreation facility in the Alps where he recovered from a severe case of influenza. Would either of them wish to trade the state-run health system for the private systems in this country? They would wonder if their Aunty Pip in America had taken leave of her senses. hahaha!

Isabell...personally,I do not want to pay for someone's one year leave or health retreat in the Alps.Both border on the ridiculous.

You don't pay for someone else. It's financed through payroll deduction. Otherwise it works like any other insurance, those who are not sick pay for those who are sick. And those who don't work are co-insured with a payer. The success is in being non-profit.

When God handed out HIS goodies, he also asked the devil what he wanted. All I want is greed said Lucifer, it shall get me all the souls I could ever dream of.

Rich,

Dah, on the Medicare comment--but it does require everyone to enroll like universal healthcare will. And it is not all roses on Medicare either. If it is so great, why is it continually in the news headline, mostly with funding shortfalls, proposed cuts, etc. Sorry, I don't buy your rose colored glasses look at socialized medicine in Europe. There is a trade off for all this . . . the upper income earners are docked 70%+ in taxes. Many of them move to the U.S. to escape this oppressive system. I know a few, and they love the U.S.A. and capitalism.

Also, socialism eventually collapse the economy, because it takes away the insentive to work hard, smart, etc. Why would you when the government becomes your mommy. Capitalism is tops.

Dah, on the socialized Bailout comment. And excuse me, it was Paulson, not Bush who led the charge on the bailout. Both parties are guilty of going along with it.

I am against socialism, not matter who is leading the charge.

I ask Isabel, about that socialist country I really wish you would return to . . . can it defend itself from marauders? I doubt it. They are probably counting on the U.S to keep them secure, like the rest of Europe. Oh yes, those nasty Americans Isabel loves to hate, unless they are footing the bill for her and her relatives.

Uh, I think if they are deducting from everyone's paychecks, you are being taxed for the healthcare of others.

According to Isabel, we are greedy SOB's if we don't just role over and let socialists like her rob the fruits of our labor, and redistribute it as someone else sees fit. Never mind we might need that money to take care of our families, or pay our workers, or our mortgage. Oh gosh, that's right, the goverment is going to make everything all better now. They are going to pay for all our needs...healthcare, food, mortgage, resort treatments, etc. etc. etc.

Anybody else out there think this is living in la la fantasyland?

Isabell...what book are you quoting "The Devil" from? Sounds like a children's story to me and with all the good things you tell us about other countries,and how lacking this country is, I am confused on why you remain here.I suspect you have options you have chosen not to exercise...just like Kim and her "Bad Air" dilemma.

Isabell, don't mind what Brian says, the "just get out argument" is the only mantra he can muster up. You see, if Brian doesn't experience something himself then he doesn't believe it is true; it's a lie or a children's story. Don't judge him though, he told me himself that he is not insensitive he is just misunderstood. You see explaining how health care systems work in other areas of the world is a direct challenge to his belief that the world revolves around him; therefore a simple exchange of information conflicting with his world view (small as it is) sounds to him like a complaint because in his world, all is lollipops and roses; like in a children's story.

I am (reasonably) comfortable right here. We were fiscally prudent for 56 years to make it so. Were I to go "back home", we would have to hibernate a couple of weeks each month, for that is as far as our U S dollars would take us. And I would have to make an immigrant out of my Anglo-American husband. My American child has a life here. I made a choice 58 years ago. And for 50 of them I have served my American community way above and beyond the call of duty (so to speak.)

Furthermore; Mr. Murray I would thank you to stop engaging in personalities and stick to the beehive topics. Furthermore number 2, it is none of your dammed business where I live (and that is personal). You are becoming annoying to me. I am truly sorry that I lack Ms. Tanksley's extroverted nature, and you may accuse me of arrogance. But I am thoroughly drawing room presentable. And therefore I shall, henceforth, ignore you like I do one other beehive blogger. You just have gone too far. And my husband has not been kept from "keeling over" he was kept from dieing of an environmental severe lung infection.

"call me anything you like, and I shall not deny it...farewell,... the sky is embarrassed and I have to go."
("Farewell Angelina" by Bob Dylan)