Now we learn that the CIA -- our CIA, acting on our behalf -- has been operating secret prisons around the globe, holding and interrogating suspected terrorists.
Setting up an American gulag was tricky. Americans have always had a quaint aversion to state-run, institutionalized terror, so we couldn't do this sort of thing on our own soil. The president swears we haven't been torturing people. No, we've just outsourced the task, like so many other things these days.
What next?
While it's almost two years old (thus not new), our stance on Extrordinary Rendition was horrific.
In fact, the Obsidian Wings tag team of Hilzoy and Katherine have done much to reveal our missteps and put them in context.
I guess the loss of thousands of American lives is more to be preferred than a little sleep deprivation for several terrorists known to possess information of impending attacks. At least that's the liberals' story and they are sticking to it!
"The fact that we have not suffered a single terrorist attack on our homeland since that awful morning in September is a remarkable achievement. But we are still in the early years of an epic struggle. The civilized world will either prevail, or a 'long night of barbarism will descend, unbroken even by a star of hope.'" (Peter Wehner, deputy assistant to the President and director of the White House's Office of Strategic Initiatives).
here's whats next,haliburton has been building "detention facilities" they've been described as "camps".....another no-bid contract ,this one is from the D.H.S.....i wonder,would TC mind if they began to round up people who speak out against the rising tide of facism in our country and the permanant war thrust upon the world by cheney's gang .....during the civil war, guys like cheney were hung for profiteering .
As the most incarcerated nation on the planet, a nation that criminalizes gardening and personal preference, nothing regarding punishment surprises me.
Consider what john swift says above about "permanent war." As long as we make enemies we will be facing potential terrorists. A war on terror (which will be as successful as many of the other "wars on") will be perpetual. The profiteers and bureacrats are rubbing their hands in glee.
Article III, section 3, of the Constitution defines "treason against the United States," as "adhering to the enemy," and giving "aid and comfort" to the enemy.
The "loyal (?) opposition" is more interested in safeguarding the rights of terrorists than protecting Americans. Wouldn't it be wonderful if Demos were as interested in defeating terrorists as they are in defeating Bush?
I'm a Republican.
What America did to Iraq was uncalled for. We LEVELED a country, in the name of "Liberty" and "Justice."
To fall along party idealogies and NOT see the inherent weakness in becoming an oppressive nation, is lack of forethought.
There is a reason Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are being treated like political lepers.
Soldiers are dying, justifying a war that never should have been engaged in Iraq in the first place.
"9/11"...? If anything, we should have strongly reinforced our efforts in Afghanistan finding bin Laden, rather than our fearless leader, Klink...er, Bush ineptly concede to Afghanistan being a blind whack-a-mole game, and then focus on a country that was low on our radar.
Hello...? North Korea would have been a FAR BETTER foreign policy concern than Iraq, by leaps and bounds...
Do you realize we are going to be stationed in Iraq suppressing a civil war, engineered by the U.S., more than likely for the next 20+ years?
The sheer genius of our current administration just boggles me.
I kind of wish, if we had ANY valid Republican candidate with foreign policy experience, it would have been James Baker III.
At least HE had what? Close to 20 years of foreign policy experience as Secretary of State, as opposed to our President's zero years of foreign policy?
And to say that Democrats and Republicans BOTH, don't have a HUGE VESTED INTERESTS in fighting terrorists and terrorism, considering both parties have children in Iraq, is just fueling the ignorant idea that a person's idealogy dictates a person's humanity.
What would you have people think? Democrats are evil?
If you want to get your rocks off throwing misnomers like "liberal" around, you may want to expand your mind a little with books. I have both parties represented in my family, but that doesn't mean each and every one of them isn't a free thinking, respectable human being.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if Demos were as interested in defeating terrorists as they are in defeating Bush?
Speaking generally: They are. They're interested in doing so effectively -- and are less interested in posing with grand "we'll do anything" posturing. That means less invading random countries, killing our soldiers over false intelligence claims, and less pissing off our allies. It also seems to mean fewer violations of the fundamental rights of Americans, less acceptance of torture as a good thing, and a greater belief in America's strength -- we're confident that a few ragtag terrorists are less powerful than, say, the whole Warsaw Pact during the Cold War.
There's a lot of debate among Democrats about how to fight terrorism... they just start the debate from somewhere near reality. Did you notice that the British defeated their airline terror plot with the law enforcement paradigm that the Republican Party has been denigrating for five years?
imagine a city the size of fresno,say,fallujah,was told to evacuate so that they could round up a few "dead enders".300000 people w/nowhere to go nothing to eat or drink,no shelter,and upon return find their city,known for centuries as "the city of mousques"bombed into rubble,and over ten thousand corpses to deal with....and TC implies that my patriotism is questionable?demonstrably everything the cheney gang has done since seizing power,has aided in the recruitment of radical islamists,its almost as if they desire permanent war,{google,project for a new american century}.my nat'l geographic map of baghdad showed a dozen catholic churches, naturally,prior to the last invasion,the vatican sent an envoy of bishops to d.c....they sat in their hotel rooms and their phone calls to the administration went unanswered....obviously diplomacy was never an option.and now,the same gang is beating the drum again,can you hear it?those persians, are they being compared to hitler? uhoh!here it comes again,expect a bipartisan disdain for diplomcy and a mainstream media not only compliant but proactively involved w'the selling of the next war,and the one after that,they will use scarey graphics and musical scores and feature guests who reassure us that war is the only option......when they destroyed fallujah,they knew what they were doing.for those of us on the left,{and i sure as hell dont mean democrats},the question is ,impeachment,or prison?
The only reason we have "gulags" hidden in other countries is so we can circumvent the American legal system. It also circumvents the legal system of every other nation, as well. It allows our CIA to act, unsupervised, and perform illegal acts against people in other countries.
The policy makers that put these "gulags" into place knew that they were treading on thin ice and would not have been allowed to implement these jails if this was public knowledge.
This in ANOTHER example of what happens when people have no foreign policy skills and can't appreciate the tenuous relationships that have to be maintained between foreign nations.
However, a simple modification of how we elect our president can greatly impact how foreign policies are implemented.
For example, let's take the last presidential election of Kerry vs. Bush. Bush won. Now, the next time we have a presidential election, the Democrats (the losing party) can promote anyone they choose, but REQUIRE the Republican party (the winning party) to promote their Secretary of State for presidency.
This way, the American public is GUARANTEED at least one person they can choose who has valid foreign policy experience.
That's not to say we couldn't have a few bad apples now and again ( i.e. Alex Haig, William Christopher, Kissinger, etc.), but so far having someone in office with no foreign policy experience has got us nowhere.
foreign policy disasters,aren't always mistakes.... they've divided up the oil fields,given the spoils of war to the same oil folks who brought us our energy"policy"....and the poppy fields are back in full production in afganistan,always good for our bankers,ordnance makers are happy,haliburton,lockheed marten,G.E.,G.M.,bechtel,et al, these corporations and so many more,are rather enjoying the current foriegn policy.