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Starline: Do we have a revolt on our hands?

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UPDATE: Starline’s manager gives his side of last night’s incident after the jump.

ORIGINAL POST: It’s only Tuesday and it’s already a not-so-good week for Starline, the Tower District nightclub and music spot.

Apparently, local band Yesterday’s Chonies, which is prone to playing out in the street, had a run in with Starline management last night. Now they’re telling people not to go to Starline. The band explains:

[We] were playing music on the street outside Livingstones/Bank of America last night right after closing time (we had played at the open mic night at the Starline earlier). The starline gentleman came out quite aggressively, when he started yelling at me in my face I gave him a rude gesture and he hit my in the face. Our baritone player and he begin to tussel until it was broken up. I was intoxicated, however I feel that even if we were in the wrong the starline gentleman could have approached us differently and not used violence.

Meanwhile, there’s now an “I Hate the Starline” group on Facebook. I don’t know that these two things are directly related. If not, that’s even worse.

In the latest View Looks Good From Here, Fresno podcast (with guests Fay Wrays), there was some talk about Starline, and its rep among Fresno bands.

Starline has been, for as long as I’ve lived here, one of the more consistent venues in town. It provides a valuable all-ages space for shows in a town that sorely needs venues.

Do I wish the door guy wasn’t such a jerk sometimes? Yes. And that their Web site was updated more frequently? Definitely. But I hate to see friction between local bands and what should be a great venue. Here’s hoping there’s resolution in sight and that Starline regains some of its luster.

UPDATE:
Mike, the manager at Starline, responds to Yesterday’s Chonies’ account of last night by saying:

The whole story, is as usual a little different. The band member failed to mention that this was the second time they had been asked to stop. At approx 1:15 am I asked them to please stop playing there very loud brass instruments in the street in front of the club. Explaining that we would be held responsible for the noise. They glared at me for awhile and stopped, I said thank you.

At approx 2:00am they decided to start up again. I approached them and said “guys, havent we talked about this?” They continued playing and just looked at me. I told them they had to stop or I was going to make them. One of them told me to f**k myself and they could do whatever they want and the other made the “rude gesture” I responded in a manner that I feel was appropriate. The other band member charged me and was pushed to the ground.Cooler heads intervened and it was over.

At 2:30am when I left the club, they were STILL playing in Me N Eds parking lot. Acting like idiots will get you treated like idiots. Im not proud that it happened, but people need to have a little consideration for the places they frequent and the people around them. Just because drunk musicians want to play loudly at 2:00am does not mean that others want to hear them

Responses to "Starline: Do we have a revolt on our hands?"

Michael says:

Wait, the guy was drunk and gave a rude gesture to the “Starline Gentleman” and is pissed at what happened? Sounds like they were asking for what happened.

Gareth Keenan says:

I’d like to hear both sides of that story.
Sounds like some butt hurt kids who embellish their stories.

kumar says:

I know I’m not the only one who has seen Starline management punching and tackling people out of the blue.

spursofire says:

The facebook group was spawned by this action, but for the most part, there is great friction between many local musicians and Starline, and without new management it will remain that way. Everybody knows that if you want to get screwed, throw a show at Starline. We’ve all done it. We’ve all sworn it off.

A couple issues: they don’t allow you to bring your own door personnel so you are at an immediate disadvantage; you can only rely on how many people they say came through; and even after you’ve told them several times that it is not an all-ages show, they somehow seem to charge a quarter of the attendees as underage (taking $4 a head instead of $1). At the end of the night, you come up short.

I’m sure the comments are gonna pile up on this one.

Belk Media Group says:

Does not matter if the guy was being a loud drunk asshole or not. That does not give Starline bouncers the right to go outside of the designated venue and attack people on the street. WTF. Starline nor does it’s employees get paid to police the street.

Edward St. Louis says:

Most local musicians are allready lining up to play at Audie’s. That is there first choice. The Starline is great if you want to play for an all ages crowd(even though as most know the kids are not lining up for shows like they used to). Yes, the musicians are screwed from the get go by not having control of their own door, but the one thing that The Starline management is good at in not allowing just anyone to get through the door(unless the doorman is paying more attention to his girlfriend behind the counter than you). They could be a little more customer friendly but The Starline management is more interested in turning a profit than providing a great musical venue for the throngs of people that they are souring on their venue. Most of the top bands in Fresno will only play The Starline as a last resort to bring in a major entertainer. But if these kids were drunk and acting a fool they probably got what they deserved. But that still does not defend the violent actions of the attacker, who should be fired on the spot and arrested.

Whiplash says:

Not surprised. In 20 years of playing bars I can only think of one or two bar owners who played fair and took care of the entertainment.

MsJoey says:

This is very true as I have experienced being shorted by not only the manager but by someone working with the manager who was there throwing a benefit for MY organization.
Money doesn’t filter as it should when you hold an event at Starline.

kumar says:

and just because you don’t want to hear someone play doesn’t mean you have the right to physically attack them. kudos for admitting it though. now you should be arrested for assault.

MsJoey says:

Audie never gets involved between the promotors and the bands. NEVER.
He’s happy to book his club and make a ton of money at the bar.

DMK says:

Sounds like a good old fashioned “Rock n Roll” story to me…..Kinda funny but also pathetic!

Bino Escobar says:

I’m just waiting for Sharon to come in with a, “I told you so”. I’m surprised she hasn’t turned into a pillar of salt, yet.

Gareth Keenan says:

I’ve seen a few incidents at Starline and not once seen actions taken that weren’t warranted. Given I haven’t seen them all, so I can only speak of those that I have personally seen.

Kudos to Mike and Starline dealing with that situation.

Just because it’s a bouncer or manager being rushed by someone, doesn’t mean they have to stand there and take a beating. Too many drunk idiots hanging around the bars anyways here in Tower.

Be drunk, have fun. It’s not too hard!

Modesto_Gr0w says:

Sounds like someone accidentally their whole fleshlight.

Aside from everything, that big dude who works the door there for years is a major jerk and a half. You don’t have to run a venue like it’s a prison. I have been going to this place probably once a month for the past 6+ years and to this day he looks at me questionably like I’m 16 years old or something (I’m 29) when I pay to get in. But if you’re a hot girl you have no problem getting in for free no questions asked.

k.pizzle says:

Give Respect, U Get Respect. The Starline Staff Just Doing There Job. Played At Starline Many Times And Never Had These Problems. Dudes Asked For It.

Gareth Keenan says:

Word.

Heather says:

Hmmm. I guess the fact that the guy has been a dick to me every time I’ve gone to Starline answers any question about whether or not I’m a hot girl.

Starline says:

Feeling the love today, ill try to respond to a few points here.
1 The reason we have our own door person is to protect the club. We ARE all ages and the door is the first line of defense. We are responsible for who is in the club and who is drinking. It just makes sense to ID and wristband at the point of entry. Im sorry guys, but I dont trust your cousin,brother whoever with our liquor license.
2 We actually are responsible for what happens outside the club. Until you fully leave the area your actions are on us. The police refer to it as “the attracting nuisance”. If you are being loud a block away, the police are called and you are coming from our club. The call counts against us. It sucks, but its the law.
3 Sometimes when dealing with intoxicated people, things get stupid.It happens at Audies, it happens at babylon, it happens in all bars. We dont look for trouble. I happen to be really, really lazy. I dont want to fight and I dont gain anything from it. I would much rather everyone have a few drinks, have a great time and get home safe.
4 I happen to like Audie and Im glad things are going well for him. he was at the Starline last night actually. But for all the bands that seem to hate us, many others are happy to play here. We are actually fully booked till January.You cant make everyone happy and you would go crazy trying. I wish Audie nothing but the best and im sure he would say the same. The rivalry only exsists on other peoples minds.

Dizeckle says:

Guess so.

Cristobal says:

I’ve personally seen the door guy (who I assume is the manager) get semi-violent with people. I was at a show at the Starline a while back. There was a homeless person walking by the venue with a beer and when the door guy saw it he knocked the guys drink out of his hand and told him to get out of there. Although I can understand his reasoning (no drinks outside of the venue), his action was way to extreme.

On the hand, as much as I like the band, it was freaking 1am in the morning! No one wants to hear the tuba at that time.

MsJoey says:

weird.
who mentioned rivalry?

Jesus Hernandez says:

Heather, it’s Tower! He could just simply be gay or maybe you truly are as ugly as a horse. Or both…and I’ve known some cute horses too.

-Jesus

Starline says:

I should address the door guy issue. In part, i agree.He can be abrasive at times. I have talked to him about it and after reading the comments here, I see I need to do so again. We are here to provide entertainment both of the liquid and audio variety. I want everyone to have a pleasant experience and want to come back. I appreciate the fact that thousands of people per month spend time and money with us. We arent all bad and we arent all good. If you have issues at the club, feel free to ask for Mike. Ill do what I can to resolve them. I cant promise you will get your way, but I promise ill listen.

Starline says:

several of the posters mentioned the Audies as opposed to Starline issue. Perhaps the word was not used, but some people do have that position.

Ben McEntee says:

if the only thing that takes place from this conversation is that the doorman will realize that he should be nicer to people (and he has always been off putting to me and i only run into him when i go in first, i.e.: before i have consumed any alcohol, therefore not being drunk and stupid) then something positive has come out of this negative publicity.

Cristobal says:

I think it should be noted that the real problem is that the door guy is pretty rough when it comes to certain situations. To complain about the guy not being nice to people paying to get into a venue is a moot point. Who cares if he’s not a people person when he’s taking money!

suzanne grazyna says:

*snort
Best comment!

MsJoey says:

” Who cares if he’s not a people person when he’s taking money!”

Really? Have you ever heard of good customer service? I recall a thread here on The Beehive a while back regarding Club M and their poor handling of the door situation……we know what happend there.

Bottom line is, there are other clubs in the Tower District and around Fresno for that matter that don’t garner this negative attention because the fact of the matter is, good customer service is vital to a thriving business.

Also, let’s not forget that Million Elephant is on track to bringing back a similar sized venue where the old Wild Blue used to be. This is going to mean MAJOR competition for The Starline.

Customers remember good service, not shallow excuses. I believe humility and apologies are in order.

joyunconfined says:

Act like a grownup, get treated like a grownup. Act like a feminine personal cleansing product, get treated like one.

That’s pretty much the bottom line.

Starline is a business. Staff has to protect the interests of owners, and the liquor license. If a club/venue becomes known for crowds that are a nuisance, it makes it that much harder. It’s like that here in Fresno, it’s like that in L.A., it’s like that in SF. Period. If your place gets flagged as a problem by PD (no matter what city you’re in) that’s like sending an engraved invitation for ABC and other agencies to come in and watch you VERY, VERY, closely, just HOPING for an excuse. It’s not right, but I’ve heard this from many entertainer friends who play in other cities nationwide, and that’s the way it is all over.

Any venue is going to do its best to mitigate the problem before somebody calls the cops. If you have entertainers that are drawing a rowdy crowd that spills into the streets, if you have entertainers that are being too LOUD in the streets… that’s a liability in many ways. Soooo… yeah. If you’re either of these, the staff is going to call you on it, and it’s probably ok that you don’t return if you don’t like it, by your own choice.

What IS it with Fresno that bands, and others, think they should have freedom to do whatever they want at venues? Remember, you’re in someone else’s house, and they are happy to have you come present your show in it, provided you behave professionally. If you don’t like that, go rent your own space, throw your own show, shell out the cash for your own sound and lighting, hire your own staff to monitor the event, get the permits from the city for food/beverages/entertainment/dancing/etc…, and you have yourself a good time, k?

If you pull that off successfully, you’ll be taken seriously and considered a professional.

Getting drunk and rushing the guy who tells you to move on because you’re creating a public nuisance is not behaving professionally. And there is NOTHING that should compel a man to stand and let himself be disrespected in that way, no matter who he works for.

Also, when the venue handles the door for you, do you REALLY think they think it’s in their best interests to screw you? No. They’ll make 10 times the amount you imagine you’re getting shafted at the bar if you promote your own show and get people there! (And if you did that, you wouldn’t really be all that concerned about the pittance you THINK you’re missing.) They’re as interested in getting your fans in the door as you are. They don’t want to cheat you out of your box office take. They don’t. No offense, but it’s really not WORTH IT.

Ok, so the door guy/bouncer/whomever looks a little surly. Yeah. Mr. Sweetness and Light isn’t likely to be taken seriously by the drunken fool that decides to act up. Of course the guy looks and acts tough and cranky. He’s not there to make you feel good about yourself. Perhaps you’re confusing him with your kindergarten teacher.

And if you can’t abide by the rules, then you have no business being in a public place.

As an aside… I, too, do not want to hear the brass blasting at 1 or 2 a.m. That’s when normal people sleep. Granted, living in the neighborhood, I have to expect that there will be bleedover noise from local events. That’s expected, but I also appreciate that the local businesses at least make an effort to keep it down so I don’t FEEL like calling the cops about the noise when I can’t sleep the morning before an important meeting, or an early class, etc…

It was Monday night, for heaven’s sake. MONDAY. C’mon, man, EVERYbody’s Monday is a bad day to start with. You wanna disturb somebody’s sleep at the START of the week?

And I actually LIKE Yesterday’s Chonies. They’re cool, and fun, and unique. But not outside at 2 a.m. That is merely uniquely irritating.

Ben McEntee says:

Cristobel, so it is in the best interest of the starline to have a doorman who is providing the paying customer their first impression of the venue/business to be rude to people??? That is a great business model!! Go with that, you will go far with that moot point . . . yes, i have an excellent idea .. . i will start a business and have a receptionist who repels my customer base!!!! HHHOOOOORRRAAYYYYY!!!! Like i always say: a rude doorman will only expand a thriving business.

Gareth Keenan says:

I’d have to say that is the best, most thought out, and well-rounded post on this thread.

You obviously aren’t just some patron who has no idea about the inner-workings of a music establishment and how things work.

Well said! :)

drlucky says:

You obviously have never played in a band that has gigged around Fresno. Believe me, I and other musician friends of mine have been ripped off many times in the past by club owners (not Audie’s, Tokyo Garden or Milano tho) looking to scamm some extra cash on a busy night. Yeah, i know that it’s rough dealing with FPD and the ABC, but that doesn’t give club owners the right to let the cute chicks, their buds, moms, whoever in free, at the band’s expense. It happens all the time.

Towerite says:

Interesting stuff here. Many valid points. My two cents is that the door guy who sorry, thought was Mike, usually looks at everyone like they are a suspect of something. And yes, even when you’ve been there for years. It doesn’t hurt to smile does it?

If their goal is not just music but drink, get real bartenders. Stock your beer coolers. No reason to have to wait as long as you do during the week.

Can you clean the front of the place up please? It looks like crap. Tagging, old posters, trash. Come on…I know that no matter how much you clean up, someone will write on it again. But can you make an effort please? Livingstones doesn’t look like that. Brass Unicorn doesn’t look like that.

When we went last week, we ordered chicken nachos. They were honestly the worst thing I have ever ordered anywhere. Cold nacho cheese sauce poured over…what was that? Canned chicken? Gross.

The vibe at Audies is jovial. The vibe at Starline is not, no matter who is playing there.

BIGHORNPLAYER says:

I have had both good experiences and bad at the Starline. The door guy has been both cool to me and has been a complete dick. In retrospect, my attitude had as much to deal with it as his. I think it would be wise to let bands take a count of the people, IN ADDITION, to the staff at the Starline. You cannot ask the owner to put the license in the hands of non-staff. He still has to protect his business. I would say the vinegar doesn’t attract many flies. When my band has played there we all felt that the door money was about right. Once or twice, playing with other bands, it has felt questionable. Keep in mind folks that it is VERY stressful to run a club and the last thing you want is trouble. MUTUAL RESPECT is a necessity and is most often the first thing to go by one side or the other or both. I will play there again, and in a town of few places to play, I think it unwise no dismiss a place like the Starline.

Anonymous says:

i have been playing in prominent fresno bands for over 15 years now. i stopped coming near the starline many many years ago. sad to say, it sounds like nothing has changed.

if you guys can get away with your current actions and still make money, more power to you.

Cristobal says:

Yeesh! Look, good customer service is great, we can all agree on that. It definetly helps a business if they have a likable workforce. But to me, it’s not a big deal if the door man is gruff in his demeanor. As long as he takes my money, gives me a bracelet and sends me on my way, I’m fine. I don’t need a smile or some small talk. However, if that same door man punches me in the face, then I’ve got a problem.

As for the door man’s rudeness hurting the Starline, it’s certainly possible, I won’t argue with that. But has it hurt them so far? I don’t think so. And as long as the Starline keeps booking good line ups, I don’t think it will.

Ben McEntee says:

the only reason it doesn’t hurt starline’s business is because fortunately for the starline there are limited places like it and that is the kicker to this whole thing … if fresno had more venues the starline would have most likely been forced to close shop a long time ago or alter the way it does business. .. if there was more competition in town the starline would never have lasted this long . . . but there isn’t so they can pretty much do what they are doing and people can secretly loathe them for it .. . but who wants that?? because the starline has been/is at times/could be an awesome place that i have enjoyed and had the pleasure of performing in.

and i am not asking for a moist toilette and big huge smile from the guy … simple courtesy is what i hope for . .. don’t go to extremes here .. . i don’t need an ego stroke and never asked for one when i go to the door … all anyone asks for is simple courtesy .. .

MIXNBLEND41 says:

If you want someone to smile and wave their hand at you saying “hello” and “welcome”, then go to Wal-Mart, otherwise, if you make the decision to go somewhere to hear some live music or see your favortite band, pay your cover charge and deal with it.. Deal with the unpleasant doorman, you know he’s there, but you still go expecting he’s going to hand you a bouqet of roses or something.. Door personnel should be imposing in appearance or demeanor, as to discourage idiot kids or patrons who cannot handle their liquour from getting out of line and disrupting or ruining the experience for all the other mature and well behaved guests..

All in all, RESPECT the venue! That’s what it comes down to.. Musicians, DJ’s, MC’s/Rappers, etc..all you have to do is RESPECT the venue.. very easy to follow..think about it..

What sucks is that postive posts on the beehive about success of local musicians(Fashawn, Trey Tosh etc etc) hardly ever get any feedback.

And while, yes, this is an issue that needs to be addressed..I get that…It still sucks there’s not more attention on the positives that happen.

This is my second post on this thread though, so I guess I have no room to talk.

MIXNBLEND41 says:

@Patrick Contreras..

I don’t pretend to know why that happens, but if there is a trend in Fresno, it seems to be that alot of people here thrive off negativity..

People “hatin” on others for their success or people “hate” because others are trying to do something positive and be pioneers in the local scene, some view it negatively because they’re not apart of it or feel they can do it better than everyone else, so instead of supporting it they do what comes natural to them..hate on it..

i’ve been witness to it happening in the local underground music scene mainly with dj’s/clubs, and thats what I speak of, don’t know if transfers over to live bands and stuff…

I don’t really care about what went on between the two sides last night. As someone who lives in the neighborhood, what I do care about is people playing music on the street at 2 a.m.! I’m trying to sleep! People live here! I have to work and do not want to be woken up by you, no matter how fabulous your music is, in the middle of the night. And the Starline guy is right, because people like me will call the cops and he, unfortunately, is the one who have to deal with them.

Stephen says:

Disclosure: I work sometimes at the Starline, as a freelancer. My main job is to work for the promoter or the club handling ABC compliance.

As the club is all-ages, the owner and manager and doorman and bartenders are all trained heavily in preventing underage drinking. Keeping the liquor license safe and police calls to a minimum helps the Starline to be the premier club for all-ages shows. Helps to keep kids safe while in the club as well.

I attended the ABC LEAD course. I attend the national law enforcement seminars. I have also provided written policy for many clubs.

The Starline is responsible for enforcing their conditional use permit, their ABC liquor license, and the laws while in business. This covers the entire club, the grill, the parking lot in back, and the sidewalk and 20 feet around all of that. Same for Livingstones.

That’s a lot to cover. The Starline is responsible for decibel levels (which this band last night was violating). They’re responsible for drunken behavior near or about the club. They’re (wierdly) responsible for drunks/drugged up folk even if those folks just arrive in that state from somewhere else.

They’re responsible to protect the safety of their customers and staff.

Is the doorman a dick? Sometimes, but hey, he’s consistent. He’s the frontman 7 days a week in that little booth to keep all of those regulations in check. He hires and supervises security. He has to deal with anywhere from 10 patrons to 280 inside the club. He has to keep people from loitering, make sure there are no open containers on the sidewalk, and protect the customers.

On the Grill side is Mike. He has to do the very same on his side of the world AND oversee the club.

I wasn’t there last night, but if that band was playing too loud, it was violating the decibel rule. The band probably didn’t know that, they were just busking. But once informed, they continued. That puts the club’s license at risk. Then it sounds like testosterone and youthful vigor took over, and the manager had to protect himself, the club, and the situation, and do it in a snap judgment.

Worst part? The police, ABC, and other law enforcement expect a club to be able to handle these things themselves. A guy is urinating on the front door? Handle it. Homeless beggar getting aggressive with customers? Handled. Fake ID? Selling drugs within the area? Domestic disturbances? Handle it.

Even with the full disclosure above, I think the Starline, Veni’s, Audie’s, Tokyo and Babylon do an amazing job of handling these situations. Teens and twenty-somethings will feel put upon sometimes, but it’s a private club, it’s their license at stake, and if you folks want to keep enjoying, you’ve got to learn to play the game.

As for the chicken nachos, I have no comment except to say get the pizza – YUM!

Everyday Jane says:

What a bunch of crybabies. Starting a hate group? What antics. Any drunk jackass would have gotten their face punched in for making a rude gesture. I’m not saying he asked for it, I’m saying even if it wasn’t the “Starline gentleman” throwing a punch someone else might’ve done it.
They (Starline, et al) certainly could have handled it better and are expected to do so since they are a business, I understand this. What I also know is that Fresno isn’t the best place for shows so boycotting this place may not cause it to close. But if it did then that’s one less option. Still is this what we think will change their alleged distasteful tactics? No. We’re not interesting in changing it – we’re interested in hating it.
I’m not a musician so I’ve never been screwed by them. Nor am I a regular patron at the Starline so I’m not familiar with the dickheadness that occurs. I’m just annoyed at the lack of common cooperation for the betterment of Fresno’s night life.
Starline sucks for having punch-happy guys.
And those guys suck for creating a hate group.

staci louise says:

There’s no excuse for punching a tuba player who’s harmlessly playing some music- Starline’s people seem to have too much fun with the power they have.

kumar says:

Yeah, enough whining about all the responsibilities that Starline has to deal with. Every other venue and bar in town has the same responsibilities. It’s no excuse for punching someone in the face.

Stephen says:

I’m not seeing where the guy got punched in the face. Sounds like he bum-rushed and got pushed to the ground.

If he had been actually punched in the face by the manager there, his jaw would prolly be wired shut now. That’s a big manager…which probably causes a lot of the drunken testosterone from the band dudes, cuz everyone wants to prove they can stand up to the BIG GUY.

:::sigh:::

and the gossip goes on…

MIXNBLEND41 says:

@Kumar
@Staci

In your opinion, what should have been done differently? Should the tuba player have been repeatedly asked over and over again to stop playing music? He was was already asked to stop playing by management, according to mgmt. Should mangagement continue to stand there politely in front of tuba player, asking him to stop, while continually taking in rude gestures and f-bombs? “Harmlessly playing some music..”, its not harmless once the proper authorities fine or suspend multiple licenses of the establishment in question for violations, is it?

If you don’t want to get punched in the face, don’t be a jackass..

kumar says:

The story as I read it, from both sides, is that Chonie #1 made a rude gesture, manager punched him in the face, then Chonie #2 “rushed” the manager and got taken to the ground. A few commenters seem to be taking it as if the band attacked the manager first, but I don’t think either side is claiming that.

Tower for life! says:

Hahaha. This is quite entertaining. I’ll have to thank the more irrational folks on the beehive for their endearing comments about one of my favorite venues in Tower.

Before you get your knickers in a twist, get both sides of the story. I’ll comment on this properly once I’ve attained all the information. Would have been nice if Mike Oz would have exercised a little journalistic professionalism and done the same.

Word.

MeAnIeS says:

ThE StArLiNe Is A bUnCh O’ MeAnIeS. I UsEd To LiKeDEd To GoInG DaRe AnD LiViNgStOnEs

ed says:

at what point does a business owner have the right to assault someone that is no longer in their establishment? his words, “I told them they had to stop or I was going to make them.”

just because someone tells you to eff off and gives you the bird, you don’t have the right to physically attack them. you may have the right to defend yourself from their friend, but what legal right does a business owner have to punch a guy in the face?

kumar says:

I don’t think the “proper” method for dealing with a potential noise violation is to commit assault and battery, and I don’t think the “proper authorities” think so either.

I actually think a polite approach might have worked, but knowing who was involved, I doubt that was attempted here. If the polite approach doesn’t work, there’s always those “proper authorities” you can call.

Tower for life! says:

Lol, Mr. Fay Wray. More venues? There’s been plenty of venues that have competed with Tower’s dynamic duo (Audie’s and Starline). There was Belmont/Exit/whatever else it was called. There was Crossroads. Milano’s is closing this week?

I’ve been watching shows in Fresno for about 13 years, and have supported all scenes from punk to indie to metal to rap. I’ll go watch bands 3-4 days a week, every week. Some bands are respectful of venues they play in, and are treated with that respect in turn. Some bands act like utter douchebags, get given the same energy back, and then feel the need to go cry about it on online forums such as this one.

Ben, this should jog your memory. Remember Pink Eye getting 86′d from Starline? Was it because the venue was acting like a bunch of dicks? Or was it because a certain frontman refused to stop playing when the night ended and then subsequently busted out the Starline bathroom’s window?

Starline’s been around for almost 11 years. Obviously the venue’s doing something right.

Oh. And this is @ whoever made the comment about Starline being all about making money…WTF? What business isn’t concerned about making money?! It’s what keeps them open, allowing scenes to thrive. Audie cares about money. So do Tony and Cindy at Veni’s. So does Starline. What good is a venue to any music scene if it’s on the cusp of closing, if not already so.

YC Tuba says:

Hey all,

I’m the drunk tuba player. I realize that we were being very inconsiderate by playing so late at night on the street. I am sorry for doing so, it was a poor decision made while intoxicated. I had no intention of this escalating to this degree, and the comments that had been posted on the band’s myspace were taken down when I woke up this morning. We have not tried to start any starline hate groups.

Despite the fact that we were acting like drunken idiots, it was not appropriate for Mike to hit me after I gave him a rude gesture.

He is right that this was the second time he asked us not to play outside, however the first time he spoke to us was while we were tuning up our instruments (an unfortunate necessity of brass instruments) before playing at the starline’s open mike night.

Once again, I apologize for being loud and stupid last night, I really had no intention of this incident being so widely discussed.

Thank you,
YC Tuba

Stephen says:

While I grant Starline (and every business) is concerned with making money, Starline’s contribution to the community is endless and HUGE.

Reel Pride and Rogue Festival both use the Starline as a venue, and I know the manager there doesn’t get paid an extra nickle to work those extra hours, and the venue (aside from selling drinks), doesn’t make much money on these events.

Charity events are held there often (Undercurrent, Pecha Kucha, Creative Fresno, etc).

Starline is a big part of the Tower, and the place would be much much worse without it…so let’s keep supporting it. You, too, MsJoey.

MIXNBLEND41 says:

You’re right, just because someone flips you the bird or drops an f-bomb your way, doesn’t justify going after them and physically attacking them, but c’mon, you have to expect something like that to happen and in this case it did. Plus, add alcohol to the mix and fuggheddaboutit.. If you’re going to hurl obscenities and act a fool in public chances are some things are going to be hurled right back your way. These tuba players put themselves at risk with their poor decisions and were dealt a harsh reality. There is a time and place to play your instruments and outside a venue at 1am is probably not one of them. If you do decide to exercise that option, then you should be prepared to face the consequences of your decisions.
So, what should have transpired is management should have notified the proper authorities to come handle the tuba players? Maybe, detain them for public intoxication, disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace,etc.??? The City of Fresno isn’t going to spend their time with that nonsense, they would rather go after the business owner for permit/license violations and rake in some serious money..

Plus, business owners are only alotted a certain number of calls to Fresno PD. Exceed that number and the City starts charging to come out to handle disputes in the establisment or around the perimeter of the establishment. Which is why most owners/bouncers/staff will take matters into their own hands. It doesn’t make it right, but its the nature of the beast…….

joyunconfined says:

I am in a band. I have gigged around Fresno. We have never been “screwed” by a venue. We know the rules (and how the box will be handled going in) so there is never any dispute. If we were worried there would be, we would take appropriate measures in advance. Granted, it’s not really that big an issue to us, but if it were, it would be handled professionally.

If you are a band that is big enough, or popular enough, you can require a contract or a guarantee of some sort. If the venue doesn’t offer those, then you go play somewhere else. It’s pretty cut and dried, and no hard feelings. If you’re starting out, and can’t demand those concessions, then realize you’re paying your dues just like every other band that has started in someone’s garage and has decided to step out and do something more and better.

As well, I have produced and/or performed in several shows locally, and have never run into any trouble with compensation. Granted, the shows weren’t Save Mart Center huge, but they have consistently sold out for the size of the venue, and everybody gets paid. I am the FIRST person to believe that entertainers should get paid for their work. Period.

Also, I run the booking for a small local venue, and have frequently made the decision to forego the booking fee (the only way I get paid for the work I do on behalf of the venue) so the band can go home with a few extra dollars. That’s dollars out of MY pocket, part of my compensation for services rendered. I’m not complaining; it’s my decision to do this because I believe SO vehemently that entertainers should get paid.

But too many times I have seen fabulous entertainers play to tiny audiences, all because they think something along the lines of, “I’m great, they’ll show up.” Or… “well, I’ll just let someone else promote me/us.” The problem is, there is a LOT of “great” around here, of different varieties, and unless you personally get involved in getting people to recognize you, and when and where you’ll be, they are NOT going to show up. This is Fresno, not LA, and not SF. Work with it. It is what it is.

So this, I know: If you are promoting well, getting your face in front of people, getting publicity, and get a house full of people, you aren’t as likely to complain about 3 or 4 people the management decides to comp for your show. On the flip side, I also know it’s bad form to comp a bunch of people for a band that only has 20 people in the audience. It’s not fair, but it’s also not the management’s problem.

And if you know successful entertainers, you surely know that the real money is in the merch, not the door. If you aren’t merchandising, you aren’t making what you could. (Assuming you have a loyal and interested following.)

But the bottom line is beyond all this. When you play a venue, you are in someone else’s house. Yes, you should be able to expect to be treated respectfully as the guest you are, but in return, you MUST respect your hosts. This means before you play, while you play, while others are playing, and when you leave the venue.

Act like a professional, and you’ll be treated like one. Act like a drunken fool, and you’ll get the bum rush. Because a venue manager has more issues (and more drunken idiots) to deal with than just you, and doesn’t have time to sit and negotiate peace talks so you feel ok about being asked to move on.

I don’t think Yesterday’s Chonies is any the worse for wear… too much… for this episode. If nothing else, people know they exist now. (And I say that’s a good thing.)I hope to see them around town in the future, for sure.

And the Starline is still there, and will continue to be there, because the staff and management DO try to abide by the laws, and keep the place open for all-ages shows.

K.Pizzle says:

Problems With The Starline
1.No Toilet Paper In The Mens Restroom
2.No Hand Soap In The Mens Restroom
3.No Paper Towels In The Mens Restroom
4.Small Bar

Other Than That, I Think They Have Always Been Reasonable People As Long As You Show Them Respect You Get It Right Back. Thank The Good Spirits It Wasn’t A Hip Hop Event.

Mike Oz says:

Props to you, Joy, for being so well-spoken twice in this thread now.

Tower for life! says:

The story I’ve gotten so far from the venue and a couple bystanders is that the initial incident of noise violation was after 1 a.m. By my estimation, that was AFTER your band had played at Aesop’s growing Open Jam Mondays. Second incident was close to 2 a.m., ya?

Nice nice on the apology, though. I’ve had to apologize to venues I frequent in the past when my morbid fascination for Patron has gotten me a bit mouthy. It can happen to any of us. Big up for coming out and saying it on this blog.

MIXNBLEND41 says:

Great job there detective.. all that information is stated at the beginning of the thread/Mike Oz’s post…Great Job!!!

ben galvan says:

Umm…maybe scratch no. 1. I suggest taking a dump before going out to a club/venue so that you don’t have to run into a “no toilet paper in the mens restroom” problem. If you do that then there is really no need for t.p. Blast one out before you head out and shake well before you place it back into your pants [you shouldn't need t.p. for your wang anyway] and you’ll be alright. Also, I usually just use my undershirt to dry off my hands when I visit the Starline. It would be nice to have paper towels, but my undershirt works just as well.

joyunconfined says:

Hey, YC Tuba…

That’s a class act, right there. You’ve shown your mettle.

Let me know if you want to book at my venue some time. ;) (Just don’t be mean to me when you’re drunk. I have delicate sensibilities.)

Dale Stewart says:

All I want to say is….. Can I have a gig at the Starline? I promise to behave and go home right after the gig.
thanks,
Dale
http://www.myspace.com/dalenthedustups

MsJoey says:

Honestly, if there was a show there I was really interested in, maybe I’d overlook the fact that management is rude and disrespectful.
But lately not a one.
With that said, I’m pretty happy with the shows I’ve seen and the service I’ve gotten elsewhere so I’ll spend my money there.

I just find it suspect that the management has brough so much ire from musicians, promoters and customers….enough to garner this negativity.
At some point you stop patronizing those who treat you as if you business is irrelevant. Again, I’ll take my money elsewhere.

wet towel says:

…cutting out and pasting up that whole response as one of the weirdest things I’ve read in a while… (I know Jesus ain’t ‘Jesus,’ but, jazus, that was funny…)

Tower for life! says:

Thanks, sweetcheeks. We should meet for drinks later (if you have a big bottom and a penchant for skinny boys)! ^^

Stephen says:

If props were cash, you’d deserve a million bucks.

Very well done, Joy.

Stephen says:

Yeah, some big ups for the public apology.

If you say Mike hit you, I believe you…but man, oh, man, he couldn’t have hit you that hard, or you’d likely never play that tuba again!

Seriously, tho, Joy was right…this might have hurt your jaw a bit, but the publicity for YC! Whew!

I hope you and Starline square this whole thing away and soon. Actually, I think you just did that with your note here. Nice.

K.Pizzle says:

I’m Just Saying In General. Sometime I need To Blow My Nose Or If There Is No Paper Towels, I’m Not Gonna Use My Shirt And Have Wet Inside Shirt All Night. Maybe You Had Dinner At Stones Or The Grill Before A Show? U Can’t Help It. What R U Gonna Do, Drive All The Way Back Home To Deuce It Up? This Is way Off The Subject Anyway. Drizzopit. E.A.D. Peace.

Starline says:

First off, no one was “punched” , the “rude gesture” was a chin flick that headed toward me at its end. I responded with an open left hand ( im right handed) Now , in retrospect, perhaps I over reacted. But at two am, with two men carrying large chunks of metal being aggressive, I took it as move toward me and responded as such. It was really not as big a deal as it has become. Im sorry it happened, it was just a series of missteps and misunderstandings on both sides. But the exchange has been interesting.

Eli says:

Look, punching someone in the face is assault. Hitting someone in response to be flipped off is not like self defense and is uncalled for. My main qualm with starline is not the management, sound engineers or bartenders. It’s the meat heads they hire to run the door and do “security”. They have no respect for the bands and performers that are performing a service @ their establishment. They also have no respect for the scene and patrons that live in the neighborhood. This is what breeds contempt for that place. Respect cannot be one sided. Performers are just as important to the venues success as the venue itself! And none of it would be possible without the people paying to get in. So a serious attitude adjustment is in order!

Starline says:

Please let someone know when we are out of these things, of course, we might REALLY be out, but more often we can fix those problems.

MsJoey says:

I agree!!!
What I really respect about YC Tuba’s response is that he took full responsibility. He didn’t follow up on his apology with a “but”. That shows alot of maturity.

The Fresnan says:

I say this is the greatest PR stunt of all Fresno time! Is there anybody on Fresno’s interents that don’t know the band name “Yesterday’s Chonies” now?

Mwaaa ha ha ha.

Vishinna says:

I was there when the first encounter happened and it was not as Mike, the manager at Starline, describes it. The two were playing and there were a few others around clapping and beat boxing. Then he walked up to the group and parted people standing in his way with his hands. Got in one of the guys faces and proceeded to order him to stop…..stop….Stop playing, and that he had people living around there that don’t want to hear that music so late. So the guys stopped playing and apologized. But he most certainly did not ask them politely he barked orders at them. For a first encounter with these guys about the noise, this to me was a little overly aggressive from the start. Also to my knowledge they only were asked this time and then when the incident happened. So there was no need for this to have ended in violence. It is brash and uncalled for, for a man of business to act so unprofessionally. I and my friends will never support an establishment that would act so violently against music no matter what time it is.

~V

jrmhlee says:

I agree with The Fresnan. Though it may have been unintentional, they are now the benefactors of some serious PR.

Starline gave the punks what they wanted. They are attention starved kids “stickin’ it to the man!” Some of these kids take their anti-establishment mentality so far as to not purchase deodorant from the evil corporations (or soap).

They used to fight for skateboarding rights, but now they’re on to bigger and better things, like the legalization of pot– the sole reason they stopped skateboarding. (Although they claim that the con-trails made them stop)

FresNO says:

You don’t punch someone over this, period. Right or wrong. Call the cops. That/s their job. It ain’t Starline’s job to beat on people. Starline fail.

Mike says:

Is this serious??? PeOplE WhO tYpe LiKe thiS NeEd tO Be STERILIZED

Mike says:

Punched, bitch-slapped, it doesnt matter…you ASSAULTED someone. Over being noisy. Were they being jerks…sounds like it. And I am sick of hearing that calling the cops is a “strike” against you. Call the cops with an anonymous sound complaint. Pro active violence has NO excuse. Ive been to the starline twice. First time my military ID wasnt good enough for the door man. So as I was TURNING AWAY I told my friend “dude wont take my f***ing ID”. Maybe a poor choice of words. But with my back turned and me leaving since I wasnt going to be let in, assmunch door guy grabs my neck and say, “dont tell me how to do my f***ing job”. Um hello…I was LEAVING. After swearing off that place forever, I was invited to a friends show and against my better judgement I went. I was outside smoking and yucking it up having a good time when same door prick grabs me as I go to re-enter and says, You’ve had too much to drink, your day is done. The kicker…I was sober as a judge. Other than 2 expensive ass red bulls I hadnt had a sip all night (I pulled DD short straw). So f*** the Starline. And from reading the comments here…I feel good it wasnt just me.

John says:

He neglects to mention at 2am when they started up again the actual altercation was near BA, not Starline. Hence if he had a problem he should’ve called the cops, not gone vigilante.

Cristobal says:

What the?! Staying on topic fail.

Stephen says:

Neither John nor FresNO had time to read the previous comments, it seems.

It wasn’t a ‘punch’ FresNO.

And John, I know my first comment was long, but Starline is required by ABC and the conditional use permit to patrol indoors at both places, the back parking lot, and the front sidewalk ALL ALONG the building, and 20 feet past.

If the decibel levels are violated, especially by a group who just finished playing (where?) the STARLINE, guess who gets the write-up when someone complains at 2am? Starline.

And calling the cops tells the ABC and the Fresno Police that you aren’t able to handle your business yourself, that you can’t control your decibel levels by yourself.

Starline fail? no. Conditional Use Permit fail? nope. ABC or Fresno PD policy fail??

Nah.

DRUNK KIDS FAIL.

You guys are the ones in Dinuba still blaming the police for that terrible car crash tragedy that killed 5 little kids, and not the gun-convicted gang bangers who fled, or the parent who couldn’t possibly have belted 5 children in a pickup truck.

Johnny says:

you are all MODED

SickofStarline says:

Then fire the guy. Fire your staff. And most importantly fire yourself. You are the single worst advertising for your business possible. In all my years of dealing with crap customer service in this town, your venue makes me wish the DMV had a bar.

The best thing you could possibly do with this business is to stay the hell away from it when it is open. Because of your attitude when I’ve seen you in person, as well as your mealy mouthed attempts to justify being a belligerent and violent jerk online, I have no want to spend one red cent there ever again.

Your food comes out cold. Your bar is understaffed with 1 bartender to cover the entire room. And the attitude that you spread amongst your employees comes out in their own angry and dour demeanors.

I implore all good Towerites and venue goers: If you see this jerk lay a finger on another patron, call the cops. If you see his doorman knock a beer out of a bum’s hand. Call the cops. If you see some underaged tail in the venue, call the cops. Since the sanctity and wellbeing of their patrons isn’t their concern, then why let them get away with assaulting customers for profit?

Anonymous says:

Extra Golden (Thrill Jockey Records: From Kenya)
3 Bags Full
Yesterday’s Chonies
M. Garcia DJ Set (Evening Ecelctic)

Tuesday Sept.1 $10
Audie’s: 9:30

S. Ryan says:

I don’t know how California’s Liquor licensing and authority works here but I know in Oregon it only takes a handful of complaints about your ‘bar/nightclub/hangout’ being a problem and you lose your license courtesy of the OLCC.

And, to top it off.. if you’re lucky, you get it suspended. They don’t do that twice. The next time you lose it — and your only way to get it back is to get new ownership.

They don’t place nice up north so I do agree — the bar has a lot of interest in making sure things go smooth and without incident whether that’s at the club or around the club.

S. Ryan says:

Whose the door guy? Patrick?

MIXNBLEND41 says:

Exactly! DRUNK KIDS FAIL! If these kids can’t function properly in public then stay home and party in your garages. Feel free to drink what you like, act like you want to and go glowstick yourself. But when you do decide to venture outside your safe, cozy confines be aware that some of your actions may affect others in a negative way and also could ruin it all for everybody. And thats a lose-lose situation all around.

Maybe Starline management should call FPD and request they send over the two policemen who punched and assaulted that homeless man. Or maybe request the one officer who took possesion of someones car and sold it. Yeah! That guy! He could take the tuba and whatever other instruments were around and sell them to some other music lovers out there. Would that make everyone happy?

Like I said before, if you don’t want to get bitch slapped, then don’t be a bitch. Don’t be a jackass and you’ll be all the better for it. And if you do decide to bitch slap someone, well there is karma, so maybe your day is coming too..

Vishinna says:

You do have an incredible in-site into the world of venues. But still for the second time of saying anything at all to these performers, a punch to the face is so overly uncalled for that I think charges should be pressed. Instruments where bent and bodies were bloody. I do understand that it was late! But the first time that he asked these guys to stop was about 2hrs before the incident happened, there was so much time between. And they had moved to a different location by then, so he had to walk over to them where they where (in front of Bank of America and away from the homes in the area.) To scream at them was crazy and to immediately walk up to them and throw a punch after and a rude gesture feels like he’s in the wrong profession. The last time he demanded was about 3 sec before he punched someone. As a bouncer you have to deal with a lot of drunk people not listening to you, and to act so abruptly and violently again after saying to stop only twice, demonstrates why he should find another line of work. I’m just happy to have heard that there was someone else there for the guy that got punched. And that he’s friend defended him pretty quickly and strongly. I’m sure this bouncer/business owner will think twice before punching someone in the face again.

well, come out to the next hooligans show september 5 at lucky 13 and i will have the always awesome door man reenact this event. did i mention this was a ska show, lucky 13, september 5? i can guarantee no drunks will be playing outside in the middle of the night, we will all be on stage. i can also guarantee no violent rude door guys, he is usually to busy grooving to music.

FresNO says:

I think people are under the impression that brass instruments must always be loud because they’ve been to too many marching bands. They can be played quietly. I’ve only heard one person, the person admitting assault, that said it was loud.

Were there any complaints? Did any neighbors actually *hear* this, or is this just Starline claiming someone would have? Who, other than one involved, says decibel levels WERE violated?

SleepyResident says:

Even though I’m not involved in this particular situation, I can only put in my two cents as a resident of the area. I don’t give a crap who you think you are, if you are playing your music – drunken or not – in my “yard” while I’m trying to sleep, then you need to shut the hell up and go home. The band was breaking noise laws, disrespecting the residents of the immediate area, and (sounds like) acting like big babies because someone told them to stop. I was forced to move farther away from the heart of Tower because of a**holes like this who don’t care about anyone else but themselves. I still live in the area though and wouldn’t appreciate a 2am concert any night of the week, but especially a weeknight when I have to get up at 6am. I will boycott this BAND just for being douchebags.

Winston Wheeler says:

What’s the address for the I HATE STARLINE myspace group? I wanna join, and would have joined that one 8 years ago. That place has ALWAYS sucked, not just recently. They are also racist as all hell….

spursofire says:

After a couple days worth of comments, I think it is pretty clear to see that there are many of us who have legitimate reason to prefer playing/visiting any other establishment other than Starline (this blog and ensuing thread are not only about the single incident that took place this week–it’s about how some of us are fed up with the place and took some public action to bring attention to the greater situation).

I’ve promoted, played, and attended shows at Starline. I’ve since sworn off the place not because any one person is a douche bag, but because there is a culture of disrespect thriving there. And a business’ culture comes from the top. Luckily, not everyone that I have had the privilege to work with at Starline absorbed the vibe. But the overall feeling there (and spilling over into the Grill) is plainly and simply not a good one. Is it something tangible? Can we nail it down to one door guy or one particularly surly barmaid? Not really. It’s a collective effort.

I’ve been playing in clubs in this town (and many others) since the Wild Blue was the premiere place to play in Fresno. I’ve never felt the negative vibe that emanates from Starline anywhere else. Most everyone with whom I’ve spoken on the subject this week agrees. Still, there are some that say they’ve only had positive experiences there. What makes this difference? Who knows. Maybe they’re not paying attention and are just happy to play and get paid what little bit they can get. Perhaps those of us who are tired of the place want a little more.

For my money, I prefer to go see bands play where I know the house is not taking a cut (i.e., as far as I know, anywhere else in town). Let the house sell alcohol. Let the bands get paid for bringing customers. I will stop short here with only a mention of how in other cities, the band gets paid by the house for providing entertainment regardless of door cover or attendance. But Starline? Haven’t been in a long time. Have no plans of going back.

kumar says:

so what you’re saying is no, you didn’t hear them. thanks.

also, if you consider the livingstone’s/starline sidewalk your “yard” you’re going to have a lot more noise issues than a couple guys with tubas. somehow i doubt that a tuba would breach any decibel limits anyway. are you familiar with the tuba? not a loud instrument.

Katie-Did says:

Although I no longer live in Fresno, the Starline and the Starline Grill were two of my favorite places to spend time. All of the employees at the Starline have to put up with people that have little to no respect for themselves, other people or the establishment that they are in. I watched Mike escort people out by their shirt collars for starting fights, being drunken jerks and scribbling all over the walls. Never once, did I ever feel unsafe at either establishment. I also never saw anything from the employees that made me uncomfortable with how they treated customers. My husband and I even had our “after party” after our wedding reception at the Starline.

If you spend any kind of time at either place, you would see how much time Mike spends protecting his bread and butter. If I had punks running around- threatening my livelihood- you’d better bet I wouldn’t be the warm and fuzzy kind of person.

The bottom line is, if you choose to act like a responsible adult, out for an evening of fun, you’ll be welcomed with open arms. If you’re looking to cause trouble, find elsewhere to cause it.

V.roe says:

I love my starline. Its a home away from home. And yea it s the only thing around when you’re 20, gay, and indie. lol.
But seriously. Does the doorguy have to watch you everywhere you go?
And when I get water.. does he have to snatch it out of my hands, put his whole nose in it.. and then give it back and say ok just making sure.

Its a love-hate relationship.

Lola says:

You could have your guy checking IDs and the band’s guy collecting the cash. It would prove you run an honest business and improve your image with the entertainers you work with.

MsJoey says:

I understand drunk people can get quite outta hand. It’s a given. BUT I frequent every other bar and venue in the Tower where the clientele can be downright obnoxious and vulgar. Never once have I seen Lou treat them in a disrespectful way nor has Cynthia grabbed anyone by the collar and “escorted” them out. Nor has Linda had to strong arm someone or Audie drag someone out.
You sell liquor, you have to deal with assholes.
BUT if you can’t, as a sober person, deal with it in a civil manner, you need to find a new line of work.
I can GUARANTEE you wont EVER find an I Hate Livingstones/Landmark/Audie’s Olympic website!

A Tower Resident says:

If the drunken band hadn’t been causing noise problems outside the establishment after they had been told to stop, none of this would have happened. Sure, the guy shouldn’t have slapped him, but honestly, if you’re going to go around swearing at someone and giving them rude gestures, then don’t be surprised when someone overreacts. The band disrespected the club, the neighborhood, and themselves. Period.

GabrielNep. says:

God THANK YOU! THIS is the Best Comment on here.

pinkeyemusic says:

>>I can GUARANTEE you wont EVER find an I Hate Livingstones/Landmark/Audie’s Olympic website!

AMEN

Krossover says:

I been playing pro in this town for 30 years, never had a bouncer up in my grill. Also never played starline. I have been ripped off by door men working for the club, lots-o-times. When you are a musician you get exposed to a lot of situations, some good, some not so good. This one sounds like it was below average, for everyone. I know this; if the cops start getting called to a club, it won’t take long for Fresno’s finest to set up checkpoints across the street and bust EVERYONE who is over the limit, and will shut down that club. It has happened dozens of times in my career. Act professional. Stay sober if you are on stage & you’ll be OK!

Ambellina says:

I love Starline. It’s a cool place to hear music and I really don’t care what attitude the door guy has. I don’t think I’ve ever walked into ANY venue in Fresno where the door guy is smiling. He’s a door guy, they’re supposed to be mean looking. As for the altercation, guys fight all the time. Now they can be best buds forever. Isn’t that how guys make friends anyways? j/k
;)

(Just wanted to add another positive opinion.)

Dr. Klaw says:

Wow..that’s harsh yo…

Manu 'Tuba Trouble' Janssens says:

Alright now. I think we all have a good idea what went down and by now, you should have picked your side. But aren’t we glossing over the elephant in the room here?
We’ve ALL wanted to bitch-slap a tuba player. Lets face it, they’re wiley and persistant. However, Mike really skirted a potentially lethal situation here. What if said tuba player had decided not to get drunk on mead, but rather to save up all his hit points for just such an encounter?? Or worse… what if he would have been a full fledged DUNGEON MASTER… Mike would surely have a castration spell coming at him! I think we can all thank God that this tuba player didn’t have a cloak of invisibility or a flaming Valkrie Sword of Doom.
Here’s how I deal with tuba trouble: DON’T look them in the eye, DON’T give them shiny trinkets, and DON’T tell them to stop playing at 2am. Period.
You got lucky this time, Mike.

Mike Oz says:

… and this thread has reached a point of ridiculousness that cannot me matched.

Everybody should just stop trying.

yadafeelthis says:

Props to Mike for slugging that kid in the nose. Stupid, no good hipster freaks. Y’all need to get jobs. I hate kids.

everyone just go to landmark, end of story.

also, was it tuba or sousaphone?

559rell says:

Sucks that Starline is so necessary. They really are, but…

-That doorman’s been rude to me at the door and when checking my bracelet inside more than a couple times

and

-A group of us had been served cold food on the restaurant side because the waitress forgot about us… with only one other table, that had already been served. She was walking around, outside laughing, chillin’, smoking and walking right passed us numerous times with not so much as an acknowledgment. It was upsetting, to say the least.

~Rell.

Fi says:

Really? Why not just punch them in the face?
Or how about some Bush style sanctioned torture?
And why wait a generation for sterilization to address the problem? Wouldn’t it be quicker to gather them all up and ship them off to concentration camps?
Your comment might have seemed funny in some other situation, but given the themes of this thread seems rather mean and intolerant.
Seriously, how about everyone devoting more energy to peacefully getting along and respecting others? The lack of respect for others and the condoning of the use of violence evident in this thread is disheartening, disturbing and apparently infectious.

Courtney says:

Funny comments and anger against the Starline aside, I’m resistant to return simply because I felt very unsafe in the situation. I was not drunk and was walking home with the guys. The doorman did rush my friend, he was in a ridiculous level of rage, and I thought he was going to punch me in the face. There was a distinct moment when I realized that I was not in a safe position because this guy seemed to have no handle on his anger. I was not doing anything, was not behaving aggressively, was not drunk.

Many people have mentioned this to me when discussing this situation. My friends were wrong in playing in the street. I should have said something about it, but I thought they would play for just a brief moment until this guy ran up and hit one of them. I simply feel it is irresponsible to keep someone in this position who so obviously enjoys being in this form of violent power, and I never want to look up at this guy raising his arm at me again. Because of this, I’m avoiding the bar.