Do today's great actresses stack up against yesterday's?
My movie buddy George Feist, who loves passionate cinematic discussions, dropped me this note:
Hello: I have a not so friendly argument with a co-worker......He says that he and his wife got to talking and could not come up with ANY ACTRESSES worth their salt in movies today. Nothing, they say, like the Bergmans, Davis', Crawfords, Turners, etc of the 40's to 70's. I disagreed with him and he said no professional critics would have any of the last 20 years in their top ten of actresses.
Some of my faves/opinions.......Helen Mirren, Cate Blanchett, Tilda Swinton, Angelina Jolie, Meryl Streep, Julianne Moore......and those come to mind..... What are your thoughts?
My response: First off, George, I hope you've completely ruled out a duel with your coworker. No amount of movie supremacy in an argument is worth a 3/4-inch musket ball embedded in your shin.
I'm on your side on this one. I really do believe that some of today's best actresses are smokin' good.
Of course, people have these kinds of debates about the "good old days" vs. the present all the time. Nostalgia is a powerful thing, and the opinions we develop in our formative years can be insurmountable. It's hard to imagine, but years from now, people will look back at someone like Cate Blanchett and assign her to the same "classic" status that we classify Joan Crawford today.
One tough thing when comparing actors of different eras is that acting styles have changed over the years. Movies are much more naturalistic these days. Sometimes I'll watch older movies and be astonished at how overly mannered the actors can be. It doesn't mean they're any less good, just that it was a different time. I don't think someone like Tilda Swinton, say, who I think is absolutely brilliant, would have been considered as great actress 40 years ago. I tend to think that her nuance would have gotten swept away by the style of the times.
Likewise, I sometimes wonder how someone like Katharine Hepburn would have fit in if she had to make a name for herself in today's cinematic environment. Today, it seems that we put a premium on actors "disappearing" into their roles -- really tricking our brains into thinking that we're seeing a genuine character up there on a screen. Of course, we all know that it's the same Meryl Streep that we've seen in dozens of other movies, but we like to think that we can be at least temporarily fooled. Someone like Bette Davis would probably just harumph at that philosophy. She was a star, and when she was on screen, she never wanted you to forget it.
I'm a big fan of all the contemporary actresses you mention, although it does take a special movie to make Angelina Jolie shine for me. Part of it, I guess, is just a generational thing. Meryl Streep will always mean "Sophie's Choice" to me, no matter how many times she's in a "Prime."
That said, I'd add Laura Linney to your contemporary list. She always wows me whatever she does.
Any thoughts on the subject, Beehive movie fans?
Comments:
I'm in total agreement with you and believe your co-worker and his wife may need to view a few more films.
While I don't know if I can include Angelina Jolie on my list; she just hasn't shown enough depth for me (at least not yet) she still has many acting years in front of her though.
Meryl Streep: enough said, definitely history before our eyes.
As for Helen Mirren, she has put out fantastic work for years but only recently getting the attention she has so much deserved.
Tilda Swinton, I think the Oscar may open new doors for Ms Swinton. She seems to be embracing the mainstream not just the artsy material now.
I saved the best for last, Cate Blanchett. This actress has it all: the screen presence, the movie star appeal and the fantastic acting chops. Not only is this actress a screen goddess but she was born and bread from the theatre which gives her that edge. Out of all the actresses you have listed, this is the one that will go down in history like your Bette Davis, Katherine Hepburn and Lauren Bacall
Posted by: Rex at August 26, 2008 5:12 PM
...erm, Donald?
--Joan Crawford wasn't in 'On the Beach.'
--are you thinking Ava Gardner?
Posted by: wet confused towel at August 26, 2008 5:32 PM
Donald writes: Good catch, Wet Towel. I've been writing WAY too fast today. The movie is "Female on the Beach." I'll change the original entry.
Posted by: Donald Munro at August 26, 2008 5:50 PM
...no probs, kid...
I'm just a big fan of 'On the Beach,' (and no slouch on Ava Gardner either,) ---otherwise I'd a missed it.
-just keeping us on our toes, I'm sure...
job well done.
Posted by: wet gieger counter at August 26, 2008 5:57 PM
While you nailed it in your perception, Donald, of the style of actresses and acting from then til now, I would still note there were many fantastic 'realistic' actors from back then.
Irene Ryan, Vivien Leigh (although she overdid it in GWTW), Helen Hayes (when she bothered to make a film), June Allyson, Ingrid Bergman.
But for all those, there's Agnes Moorehead, Marlene Deitrich, Greta Garbo, Barbara Stanwyk, and the over-actors you mentioned, Bette Davis earning the highest honor there. Even Judy Garland in 1939 was pretty over-the-top.
I think we have a bit of the same nowadays, just tilted to the more natural. Charlize Theron, Laura Linney for sure, Tilda, even Ellen Page, but let's not forget the Katherine Hegels, the Renee Zelweggers (sp?), even Scarlett Johannson in everything except Lost in Translation is a bit overdone.
For me, add Minnie Driver to the 'fantastic actress' list. She does comedy well, but is subtle and touching and nuanced in every role, equally watchable and likable. I also love Geena Davis in a good role.
OH! And how on earth are we forgetting Annette Bening!
Also the 'tweeners,' Diane Keaton, Goldie Hawn, Julie Christie, Liv Ullman, Ursula Andress, the amazing Candice Bergen.
Gosh, what a great topic!
Posted by: Stephen at August 26, 2008 9:43 PM
We always have these OPINION heated discussions......his vs. mine.......lol......We heat up regarding music too.....I love old movies don't get me wrong.....but the actresses of today have stepped up many notices....sure I love Ingrid Bergman, Bette, Judy, Judy Holiday, Katherine Hepburn and others...but some of the older movies seem melodramatic to me.....while the characters of today are amazing to watch every second they are on the screen. Some new names are growing on me too.....Tilda Swinton, Minnie Driver (as the TV gypsy wife most recently),and Lena Headly(300 and TV Terminator) among others. Julianne Moore, Angelina Jolie, Cate Blanchette are among my faves of today. All is well at work, but its fun to have "discussions" to brighten up the day......lol.
Posted by: George at August 27, 2008 8:48 AM
I think the starting point for the argument is too broad; "the 40s through the 70s" is a huge timeframe, and I certainly think you could have this same argument just between the 40s and the 70s, never mind the present day. Faye Dunaway, Diane Keaton, Julie Christie, Goldie Hawn, Ellen Burstyn, etc form a strong enough group out of the 70s themselves, and certainly are not stylistically linked to the 40s any more than the actresses of today.
I also think it's interesting that the actors of today that try so hard to hide in every role are considered "more naturalistic" than the actors of the past who played some version of themselves (or their persona) in most role.
Finally, anybody else concerned at all that regardless of what period in Hollywood history we discuss, not a single actress of color springs to mind for anyone when discussing the best actresses?
Posted by: Jason at August 27, 2008 10:54 AM
Donald writes: Good point, Jason. I guess an obvious contender, Oscar-wise, is Halle Berry. (I can't say the same about Jennifer Hudson; I thought she was perfect for "Dreamgirls" but hasn't yet proved her range.) Would it be someone like the Brazilian actress Fernanda Montenegro, nominated for the wonderful "Central Station"? What do others think?
Posted by: Donald Munro at August 27, 2008 3:33 PM
While We are on the subject of great actresses in the past one that was overlooked was Donna Reed. She was both pretty and a great actress. She was overshadowed in her two most popular movies"From Here To Eternity" and "It's A Wonderful Life" by the other cast members but she was great in both movies and when she was on "Dallas" for one season she still looked beautiful and did a great job of acting. And like other men I also had a crush on Audrey Hepburn.
Posted by: Martin Martinez at August 28, 2008 5:34 AM
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