In case readers don't click on the link and read for themselves, I should point out that I never blamed the strong mayor government on Fresno's grotesque sprawl. I merely pointed out that there is little about Fresno that Portlanders would actively choose to adopt, urban sprawl being the most obvious example. So why, then, would they choose to adopt a form of government similar to Fresno's?

It's a much longer discussion than a blog comment allows, and you'd have to be familiar with Portland's political history to understand the argument I was making, but I appreciate the link. I will say that the same civic mediocrity and lack of vision that led to all those decades of urban sprawl were the same civic mediocrity and lack of vision that made Fresno voters say, "Strong mayor? I dunno. Why not?"

As for Autry's advocacy for good planning, I caught a glimpse of his smart development prowess when I was there in January. All those square miles of identical track homes and strip malls in north and east Fresno, as far as you can drive on a tank of gas? Much better than the open spaces and orchards that used to be there. Kudos, Mayor Bubba.

I don't understand. Moore describes Fresno accurately and objectively. And he corrects Bill's interpretation. I think I'm falling asleep. Can this thing just get unposted?

Fresno's still a craphole.

It might improve a bit if all the people calling it a "craphole" picked up and left.

Actually, it would improve if all the people who thought "This place is a craphole, but maybe we can make it better" were given any reason to believe they weren't just smashing their heads into a brick wall. Instead, they actually DO pick up and leave, occasionally using the lessons they learned about their hometown to help keep other places from making the same mistakes.

Moore!!

Check out Oakland's strong mayor issues. Jerry Brown was worse than Bubba is, or so I think as a former Oakland resident, and current Fresno resident(and native Fresnan).

I do agree with Moore's article and analysis, as well as Henry's in the article that Scott wrote. I am saddened to see how "All American" north Fresno is, and Bubba and comp. (developers and most of the city council), have not made things any better really.

Though I would say that for once I do see some progress in the initiatives that friends are pushing downtown, these examples are the exception, and not the rule. Unfortunately Bubba and comp. would like to squash efforts to preserve and improve downtown in order to push a stripmall Riverpark like vision on the best part of Fresno.

If Fresno does improve itself, it will be because of the efforts of those who stay here, see the good and the bad alike, and do the work to improve it. And ignore the cheap opinions of those who move away, but can't seem to let go.

So, what's your point? It seems that you agree that Fresno is less that ideal (or even a craphole). Why argue over silly points over who does what when the larger issue is that this isn't a very nice place to live...and that the pattern of development in Freson has exacerbated that.

Your move big guy- what are you going to do about it?

Fresno is a royal craphole. Just.... don't leave and come to Oregon. Stay there. In your craphole. Please.

Surely there are people in Oregon who don't post like adolescents?

Actually, it's a bit ironic that people from Oregon criticize Fresno for land-use planning. It's true that in the past, Fresno has done a poor job at this, while Oregon has been an exemplar to the rest of the nation. But in the last few years, Fresno has at least made some stirrings about doing things right, while in Oregon they passed Proposition 37 a few years ago which makes any land-use decision subject to a potential regulatory-takings lawsuit.

So, while Scott Moore and Zac and their ilk crow about how much better Oregon is, they are actually heading towards where Fresno was in the days when developers got everything they wanted, and then some.

Thank you Mike D. for the great comment.

It's still amazing to me when former Fresnan's take pot shots at how bad Fresno is and somehow thinks they live in heaven. Then they talk about how they were just there and how they come back several times a year...if it is such a bad place, stop coming back and stop spending your time bad-mouthing it. "Oh, I just come back to see family or friends." So do you then think your family and friends are idiots because they choose to live in a "craphole"?

As MikeD also said above, "If Fresno does improve itself, it will be because of the efforts of those who stay here, see the good and the bad alike, and do the work to improve it. And ignore the cheap opinions of those who move away, but can't seem to let go."

"Much of Fresno's sprawl was created before voters approved the strong-mayor system, and the mayor doesn't decide zoning issues -- the City Council does. The truth is Mayor Alan Autry -- mocked by Moore -- has been a strong advocate for good planning."

Well, currently the Mayor appoints the Planning commision members (which are approved by council) to the Ciy's planning board, Which in turn provides recommendations to the council on development projects. Do you know the mayor's cousin was on the planning board?

Do you honestly believe that the "days of developers getting thier way" is over in Fresno?

Do you know that Fresno's Development department is an Enterprise fund, which means it gets its funds to operate from the clients it serves? (the developers)

Do you honestly believe that development in Fresno is fair to all of its tax-paying citizens? (when is the last time you saw a well-lit, clean bus stop south of Herndon ave) or a supermarket (vons, save-mart) south of Ashlan?

Perhaps those who believe that fresno is a craphole would really like to see it improve (such as myself) instead of waiting to move thier family somewhere where free-thinking, affordable housing, successful school systems, and the appreciation of differences in culture is valued.

I, myself look forward to being a "former fresnan".

209 POR VIDA

I thought about buying in fresno but now am unsure. the planning department sounds so corrupt and short sighted. I was looking for information to make my decission on a second home and future investment.