Does Fresno need another River Park?
Yesterday FresnoBee.com posted an article about a new development that has been proposed for northwest Fresno. El Paseo would be a 238-acre mixed use (meaning entertainment, retail and office) center located on Herndon just east of the 99 freeway.
The project has run into some road bumps — neighbors worried about traffic, behind-the-scenes issues with the developer and his partners — but also seems to have some steam behind it, as the developer promises that Target is on-board to be an anchor store in the center (though that appears to be the only detail he’ll share).
My first thought when I read about this was, “Oh great, more empty buildings.” I mean, Granite Park, anyone?
My second thought was a more selfish one. Herndon and 99 is my preferred exit in and out of town, as well as my on/off ramp for when I travel to and from downtown (I live in northwest Fresno, a few miles away from the proposed center). How badly is a retail center going to junk up that area, and Herndon in general, traffic-wise? I lived near River Park for four years; I know full well how difficult it is to get on the 41 off Friant during peak shopping hours.
My third thought: What kind of retail center has railroad tracks running through it?
The project will go before the city council Thursday for approval. I’ve already told my city council guy what I think, but I’d like to know what others out there think. Is this shopping center going to draw motorists to Fresno to shop, or is it going to be another Granite Park?
[photo from The Fresno Bee]
Responses to "Does Fresno need another River Park?"
$500 million to go to more buildings on the edge of town and we wonder why downtown has yet to be revitalized.
geesh Fresno people must have a ton of extra cash to always be shopping and building all these shopping centers
Heather – you hit the nail dead on. I mean, you have RailRoad tracks there! How can you put a major shopping center with that there? But lets take a look at 2 other high end centers. Riverpark is finally starting to fill some of the available spaces after 13 years and nobody was trying to outbid one another for that space. Go to Riverview Shopping center – empty space there too. I’m sure at some point the developer will be asking the city that he needs them to guarantee the loans to start construction. Fresno does not need another Target – the developer needs to go 15 miles north to Madera. They are in badly need of one.
I am a lifelong resident of fresno and have lived in this particular area of town for about a year and a half now. Don’t get me started on what NW Fresno needs. To start, lets get going on Veteran’s Boulevard. Traffic problems, solved. Its nice to have Herndon and Golden State widened, but really Fresno, you’ve really only shined up the turd that is that intersection. While I appreciate the fact that it now at least looks nice, the same amount of traffic exists, you’re just shuffling it through more lanes. Once Veteran’s Boulevard is open, I think the argument that traffic is a hinderance to this project, which I think is needed, is squashed, or at least alleviated. The other alternative, is to fix West Shaw Ave. and fill the empty storefronts with stores that may otherwise be interested in El Paseo. When I go to Target, for example, I would rather drive to River Park, than even look at Shaw west of Golden State. It is nothing short of a nightmare, which is sad, because the West Shaw Target is considerably closer to Fresno residents west of 99 than River Park.
Face it, Fresno has not grown in the pattern that a city should grow in (circular around the downtown area) so we are going to have to provide services to residents of areas who reside in these parts of town. I don’t know about the other residents of NW Fresno, but I am tired of having to drive to River Park because Fresno has decided to ignore the glaring traffic problems plaguing those who live West of 99. (Can we maybe fix the Shaw and Polk intersection while Veteran’s Boulevard is built? (just a thought).
I, like many, would love to see downtown revitalized, but it’s never going to happen by opening a coffee shope here and some lofts there. Don’t get me wrong, I think the lofts look great and are a good start, but its going to take alot more than these little projects to see the bustling downtown that we are envisioning. Get someone to take a leap of faith by opening a big department store downtown (nordstroms?) and see all those NE Fresno women hop into their Lexuses and Mercedes to check it out. While they’re down there, the’re going to need somewhere to eat, and oh yeah, lets check out that little botique…and so it goes. Yeah, it’s a pipe dream, but I think that’s what its going to take.
So, in short (because I know I’ve thrown out quite a few ideas here), do I think NW Fresno needs this? Absolutely. Do we not deserve a nice shopping area as well, or is that only reserved for the NE Fresno residents? Can someone else propose a better use for the empty fields out there or figure out how to generate some interest in the empty storefronts along West Shaw?
I can’t be the only NW Fresno resident that is tired of feeling like a 2nd class citizen because I don’t choose to live in the “trendy” area of Fresno.
Jeezus please, not ANOTHER shopping mall!!! I mean c’mon, is this the best they could do? I mean, really?
Parking issues
Complaints from neighbors
‘ANOTHER’ Retail center
OH YEAH………
AND JOBS.
Take your pick.
There are plenty of available, existing places in Fresno in which to set up shop and create jobs. Take your pick.
Big box retailers do not want to locate in smaller, older buildings. They want to build new, start fresh. This will stimulate growth in NW Fresno. As will the new Bridges Center at Shaw and 99. These projects are very different than Riverview, or any of the other centers in Fresno. Speak with any savvy broker and they will tell you what a mistake centers like that are.
When the shopping center is being built…
many CONSTRUCTION jobs will be filled….
but yes….am tired of all the half-filled centers
around town…and btw, who is loaning money for this, and the CITY needs to make sure the infrastructure will support and meet the additional traffic demands!
Here are a few problems that I see with this new project. First of all we would have to consider the current infrastructure when planning a shopping center this size and I feel that they would need to widen Golden State to three lanes both directions from Shaw Ave to Herndon Ave. Next the city would need to rework the just reworked Herndon and 99 areas to add more traffic signals for an easier flow of traffic. There is also a problem that I feel everyone else s has noticed, why should we add more empty retail space to Fresno? Now on the positive note and after reviewing the plans for the new shopping center I see a lot of good that could come from this build. First of all it appears that the city would add an exit from the 99 between Shaw Ave. and Herndon Ave. that I feel would help reduce congestion from the other two exits. On another positive note, and if this project is done right, should take two years and maybe longer to complete which could bring some much needed jobs into Fresno to help get us out of this economic crisis we are in. I feel as long as Fresno does not use our money to fund this project and some developer wants to try and create jobs for the people of Fresno why should we try and stop it?
The city redid the Herndon/Golden State intersection just last month. Not only was it a pain in the ass having that area closed to traffic, it will have all been a giant waste of time/money if the area needs to be redone to accommodate this center.
[yawn] When is Fresno finally gonna get bored with this plot we’ve seen a thousand times. It’s like watching
Police Academy 4 or American Pie 6:
‘Developer who lives far-away tries to make some money off of our situation/ throws us a bone which we salivate over.’
This is sooooo 20th Century.
Let’s move ahead now, baby. We need some modern thinking. How ’bout Urban Growth Boundary? eh?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_growth_boundary
Portland used ‘em and loved ‘em. Their downtown rocks. (It used to not rock.)
Heather, the city already approved plans to change that intersection for Veterans Blvd, Herndon Express and the new High Speed Rail
I am with Blake. This is the same crap we’ve been doing for decades: Build something shiny and new because old is lame. Then, sprawl northward to build something newer and shinier, because old is still lame.
Fresno is a car town, right? Do I need to have a Target 4 min. from my house instead of 8?
Ugh!
BB: Your comment makes fascinating reading. Let’s recap: You’re the one who decided to move to an area of town that doesn’t have the amenities you want. Then you push for those amenities to be built. Can you see this is the reason for sprawl in the first place? I know you didn’t have anything to do with the planning process that allowed your housing originally to be built — leave it to the quick-buck developers (and big contributors to City Council candidates) who are always looking to squeeze as much profit per lot as they can from a project to accomplish that — but you, the consumer, happily completed the transaction by moving in. I know, I know. You probably got a bigger house for your bucks by moving to NW Fresno. But that’s what’s wrong with this whole system: As long as sprawl is allowed to occur without meaningful regional planning, people will continue to opt for bigger and cheaper houses farther away from the city core — and then turn around and demand all the stuff everyone else has. I say: You made your choice. Drive a little longer to get to Target.
How about we first fill up the other half empty malls all over Fresno AND Clovis and then we can talk about maybe building more?
There are far more important things than a new mall. Like bringing some life to downtown!
No bueno.
so, outside of a target, what confirmed retail is there on this project? at this stage, it sounds like another forest city-esque proposal to suck $ from a city council that loves to jump at crap like this.
i’m not opposed to growth, and i think managed growth is a great way to go. is the city moving that way in an intentional fashion? are there existing services in place: water, sewer, transportation routes (hwy exits, arterial access, bus lines)? do we need more retail/business spots or can we do a better job at filling in/redoing existing shopping centers?
i’m against sprawl, plain and simple. but that doesn’t mean we completely stop all new growth.
i’m curious why a developer wouldn’t want to build near the proposed high speed rail system…downtown.
I already came from an area of town that doesn’t have the amenities I want, I actually grew up in the country but wanted to move slghtly closer to “the action” so to speak, when I decided to purchase my first home. I bought what I could afford and I am happy there, I’ve dealt with having to drive many miles to get the things I need all my life.
However, and I think this speaks for wherever you live in the city, I think its disgusting that if you want to go to a craft store, or need a book that you can’t find in one of the smaller Fresno bookstores, you have to go to River Park. It is ridiculous how much redundancy exists in that one small area. Let’s have 2 hardware stores (Lowes & Home Depot), 2 craft stores, (Michael’s and JoAnn’s), 2 book stores (Borders & Barnes and Noble) and 2 sporting goods stores, all essentially across the street from eachother.
The sprawl exists because the developers and city council have let it happen, you’re right, so now it needs to be dealt with in my opinion. Let’s shuffle some of the people in this city away from River Park and closer to where they live. Give us a little variety in restaurants, etc. Make things look nice.
I’m not saying that this is 100% the right area for a project of this type, but it is surely needed somewhere in the vicinity. It won’t just serve the people in NW Fresno that have decided to live there for the “bigger house for [their] buck,” but also for people in outlying areas (not participating in the “sprawl,” but rather those who choose to live their life rurally) that would surely benefit from being a little closer to “city life.”
I’m anti-sprawl, pro-downtown and pro-Fresno, in general. I’d say, in general, I don’t think this is the best idea. I’d like to see these resources spent downtown.
But the one thing I do think is good about this project is that it might make Fresno look a little better from Hwy 99.
word
How will El Paseo and Bridges be different?
My downtown booster rebuttal to that is (and I know I’m preaching to the choir):
99 at Downtown should be what Fresno “looks like from Hwy 99″. There should be reasons to get off the Freeway in the heart of the city rather than at the NW tip. Downtown should be what gives people an impression of our city. 99 goes right next to Downtown too, so I think the “the area around 99 needs beautification rather than downtown” argument is moot. There’s no argument for 99 at Herndon or 99 at Shaw that doesn’t apply equally for 99 at 41/180. Downtown = 2 birds with 1 stone.
I’m not trying to make an argument for the place so much as I’m trying to put a silver lining on it, should it happen.
Plus 99 around Herndon is trenched, so you can’t really *see* anything. At least you can see the downtown skyline from 99.
All due respect to you and to downtown, which I still love even tho I dont have the privilege of working down there anymore. But downtown hasn’t been “the heart” of the city for almost 40 years.
I’m with the earlier poster who said that until a big draw retailer takes a leap and opens downtown, there’s no magnet to prompt others, like the El Paso developers, to go down there. The lofts are an incredible start but every chance Fresno gov’t gets with downtown they shoot themselves in the foot, and have for decades. It’ll have to start with the business sector.
As for NW Fresno and El Paseo, the Shaw/99 sector has been dying for years and the Herndon/99 growing. This is the right spot for a development – if one’s going to happen out that way. Is it sprawl? Not so much when you consider the proximity to 99, this area’s main artery. I think a center there serves not only that area but really, Madera and the west of 99 communities as well. It’s a different animal from River Park – a comparison that’s unfortunate.
Build the new “River Park” and call it River Park that way more attorneys could get employment and litigate name issues for years. Another group of cheaply built single story beige buildings will be a tremendous addition to Fresno’s upbeat personality. The additional retail footage will help to lower the cost of the expensive retail space elsewhere. The innovative new mall will also help create new jobs by the Air Quality District by setting up new monitoring devices to measure traffic increases. Besides, with the money the city saves by keeping the lights off on the Fulton Mall and discontinuing services for maintenance, they will have plenty of money to build new roads and infrastructure to service a one of a kind shopping area.
With all the trendy phraseology of Transit Oriented Developments and sustainability being promoted by the government agencies, it is curious to see that the active developments oppose any hint of environmental equity.
Oh yea, this is growth….just like a tumor; out of control rebellious tissue that will ultimately have ill health effects on the rest of the vessel. These kind of retail lesions that seem to pop up like mushrooms every few years contribute to the atrophy of the other 80% percent of the city. Take a walk through Manchester mall any day of the week and you’ll see evidence of supply over demand; a glut of space and an absence of market demand.
The heart dies while the extremities swell with infected blood, its like a hemotoxin. And yet, Fresnans flock to them when they arrive pre-fab and souless, like it has the antidote for our poison.
The bigger philospical question is do we want the character of our city reduced to ghost malls and tract housing?
We can with good reason bring the hammer down on decisive bodies like the city council for never having the stones to say no to their junk dealers, the campaign financers and the promise of tax revenue working hand and hand to gentrify the whole of our fair metropolis with illussionary retail monuments to progress; even if they die in 3 years and the city is left holding the bad loan.
Our downtown rots, the vacancies pile up and the whole population pushes north leaving behind the corpse of Fresno, still valiantly championing the “if you build it they will come” mentality.
We could argue that this development will create jobs in construction and service industries, which it would for a while. But it would also pull jobs from other areas such as any competing business that would be in proximity to it. Just because you supply doesn’t mean that there’s enough demand.
When and if the novely wears thin how long do you allow the cycle to contine; ever pushing northword to continue to accomodate the wimbs of a fickle population who don’t want to drive more than six minutes to get to a target or a starbucks?
That brings me to another important point. Our complicity in this sprawl.
The developers and the chains and the franchises and the big box candy coated river parks of the of world wouldn’t set up shop if they didn’t think people would show up with fistfulls of credit ready to sate their purchasing elation.
If we didn’t shop at these monstrocities and buy into their culture and cheer their arrival they wouldn’t exist.
I know what some people say “but its the only place I can get my 8 gig ibrator pleasure model 5000 the day it comes out!”
Learn some patience, deny the impulse for instant gratification, and it may sound cliche but shop local, buy local, support local.
If you want entertainment see a live theater production instead of movie at riverpark. You want to hear new music, check out live bands instead of browsing CD’s at Borders.Ya need food, hit the farmers market and ignore the big ugly costco that took my beloved drive-in.
The dollar is the only real vote you have, use it wisely.
O of course fresno could use another riverpark…just not in that area…we need to take it more southwest…bring some of the jobs and entertaiment that way…everybody cant get to this side of town…u know…bring a lil joy or u can even say hope to that side of fresno….