Open Thread: Tower District watering hole blues
In the interest of making our community better, this is a rant.
Friday night, I met up with a friend for a drink at Veni Vedi Vici in the Tower District. It was our plan to sit on the patio and drink a couple of Stockholm Royales before heading over to Palomino’s for Vintage Fridays featuring some local blogger. We were to be joined by two additional friends.
What happened instead was: I got to Veni’s and ordered my drink at the bar, knowing how slim my chances were of getting prompt (or any) service on the patio. I carried my drink outside and found my friend sitting on a planter, as all tables were full. It was around 9:30.
We headed back inside to the far less than half-full restaurant, ordered a Stockholm for my friend, then made our way to a table in anticipation of the rest of our party joining us. Immediately, a guy in a tie rushed up and told us we couldn’t have the table, as it was reserved for diners.
I explained there was four of us, and that the patio was full and the bar had just two available seats left. He said he was sorry. I asked if he would prefer we stood in the middle of the restaurant, drinking our drinks. He said again that there was nothing he could do about the table, but he’d keep an eye on the patio and let us know if anyone left.
My friend and I finished our drinks at the bar, after calling our friends and telling them to meet us at the more accommodating Palomino’s instead. As we started to leave, Tie Guy rushed over and said he had a table for us on the patio, and then asked us to give him props for acting so quickly.
Not quickly enough, as it turned out. I appreciated his help, but by then we were done with the place. At $9 a pop, I can only guess how much in sales those undrank (undrinked? undranken?) Stockholms cost Veni’s that night. I can tell you it was more than the invisible money they made from the invisible people not sitting at the table we would have occupied.
I appreciate Veni’s acting on behalf of diners, but after 9:30, it seems to me that money-spending bar patrons should be equally welcome. I’m not so sensitive I won’t go back to Veni’s (I do love that patio), but I’m also not above sharing nonsense like this with my fellow Fresnans.
Uneven, or even bad, service: is this the Tower District’s legacy? Bad service is something that exists everywhere, but I hear stories like this quite often coming out of the Tower specifically.
Feel free to chime in with your Tower bar rant stories below.
Responses to "Open Thread: Tower District watering hole blues"
Looking at it from VVV’s perspective, I can understand their thought process. VVV is a popular drinking destination. It is also a popular restaurant. Some consideration must be made for diners who expect a dining environment in which to enjoy their meal, not a bar/club environment.
Around 9pm, the drinkers start to show up at Veni’s en force. This change-over time from dining to bar is one that has to be managed carefully, and I think they were acting out of respect for the diners to keep the dining room reserved until they were through eating.
So, I think VVV actually ofference excellent service to you (got a table for you as fast as one opened), and to the rest of the diners (keeping the proper environment until they were finished), by striking a good balance in a tricky situation.
My friends and I love hanging in tower. A night at Stones (Livingstones) for a friend’s birthday sounded like a great idea. Past normal dinner hours we choose the big round table in the back, as there was quite a few of us. We order a few appetizers and a few drinks. Well half of the table got their drink orders taken and the other half was left behind. ‘Weird’ we thought. “Maybe just too much for the waitress to carry, we’ll order when she comes back.” She returns with the drinks awhile later and leaves without asking the rest of the table what they wanted. So they went to the bar themselves. We would have to literally stop her in her tracks to get her attention, basically forcing her to serve us. So the bartender saw us a lot. After an evening of wondering what the deal was, on our way out the door, a friend made mention to the manager that our service was a little lacking. The waitress then addressed my friend directly with the following explanation “We’ll I don’t recognize you guys as being around tower that much.” So because she didn’t know us, didn’t see us as the ‘tower rat’ she was, she ignored a group of people who were looking to throw down a lot of money for a night of drinking. Money is money people, do your job!
Livingstones: Bar service aside, the restaurant service is, 80% of the time, crappy. Maybe it has to do with the low lights and my skin tone that makes it hard for them to see me in the permadark that is their dank cave they call a dining room. Too bad the foods pretty good, I think. DAMN YOOZ!!
I’ve never had any trouble at the Me-N-Ed’s.
Bradley, yes this is typically true. BUT there were only two tables of people in the entire place and it was pushing 9:30p.
Landmark, people. Great service all the time.
VVV has been so packed lately after 9:30-10pm, I can’t even go there. I don’t like big crowds, and while they seem to do their best, even with moe staff I’m not sure it would help – there’s just so little room there.
VVV still gets credit for making a good drink every time, and great food every time. But I don’t know if there’s any good answer for the service.
Stones…I don’t know about Tower Lover’s story, it sounds unusual, but I do know that regulars certainly get treated better there than others. I can also say that tip amounts have dropped drastically over time at any of these establishments, but that’s still no excuse to send TowerLover folks to the already packed bar for service.
I often hear complaints about service at Tower spots, but I rarely if ever have any of these issues, but I’m a ‘rat’ and a fat tipper. It is nice to hear perspective from non-Tower folk. I’d love to hear more stories like these.
Can I just give a shout out to the wackness of having to pay for dressings/sauces at Irene’s.
/end
I have to say I agree with Bradley. In having the transition from a nice restaurant to a bar scene, it’s hard to balance the respect for both parties wanting their own space. Were you and your friend going to be loud and obnoxious? No way, but the balance from dinner to bar is going to be weird leaving some less than satisfied.
I typically have pretty good service at Stone’s, whether the servers know me or not. The waitress with brown hair, who usually wears a headband, is probably one of the most attentive and friendly servers in all of Fresno, and deserves a shout out (if I was a better customer, I’d learn her name).
However, I brought a friend there Monday, someone who never hangs out in the Tower, and she pointed out something about Stone’s that I know but don’t think about very often: it STINKS near the bar. Like, literally smells bad.
Yes, but he said they could stand in the middle of the restaurant drinking their drinks. They could still be loud and obnoxious in the middle of the restaurant, not to mention probably in the way. As a patron, I’d want them to sit somewhere..
Well I know one thing.. I try not to piss off people in the community that I know have clout. Like the woman who has the ability to post about your poor service on a blog read by no less than a 1,000 people. That being said…
Wasn’t there so can’t judge but sounds like they could have appeased you pretty easily and just kinda failed to do so.
Oh well — lesson learned from them if they get word of this post.. hopefully.
Landmark is old school when it comes to service. I happily spend more in there than anywhere else because of the service, alone.
I am no longer a Tower ‘rat’, but I find the idea of treating non regulars baddly completely confusing. Who cares if you don’t “know them”, they are paying customers. The last thing one needs is to be seen as a business that turns it’s nose up to new money coming in the door.
Heather, I think it was rather foolish of VVV to not allow you a table. Stolkholms are expensive ( and as good as VVVs are… they are not the Royales that the Planet used to make, OMG Heaven in a glass) and worthy of a table. Also, how many people who are planning on sitting down have only ONE drink? ( guess that says a lot about me). Four Stolkholm Royals between two people is a nice 36 bucks plus tip. That’s not even counting the friends you were meeting up with. After 9 at night, that was a foolish move.
Unfortunately, it’s a sign of the ‘follow to the letter even if the ship is going under’ way. Employees are not taught to make educated decisions based on the circumstance. You didn’t have bottles of bud in your hands… you had higher end drinks… common sense should have dictated.
I’m still lost since UNIVERSITY CHICKEN closed.
I like Sequoia in the Tower. Good food too.
Still in the search of hot wings though.
Steve has a great point. You never know who you’re putting out. Maybe tie guy doesn’t read the Bee or the Hive and didn’t know who Heather was… and that’s the point when it comes to a business that relys on others.
Reminds me of a story ( sort of reverse) from ages ago.
I worked in the Tower and after our shift several of us would go to The Daily Planet for drinks. We were all in uniform and the Planet didn’t open for another hour but they let us in since we looked more like their service staff than not. OK, so they made $$ an hour early off the six or so of us there. ( not the story, but goes with the thread). We’d drink till the kitchen was ready and then order apps.
One night, after the place opened to the public, we were all sitting around having drinks and apps., talking food and drink and a man with a very attractive woman sat at the end of the bar and joined in.
At one point he asked us where we liked to go besides Daily Planet. Without a hitch we all responded “The Elbow Room” and gave him all the reasons why. Talk moves on, man and woman leave in natural course of things and after a while we decide to check out. We ask for the bill and the bartender informs us that it’s been taken care of and hands us a business card.
The guy we talked up was one of the co-owners of The Elbow Room, at the time. For the life of me I can’t remember his name, though. If he reads this… it’s a story I still tell ( a bit over a decade later) when asked which is my favorite restaurant. Class act and such a commentary on service. He provided customer service outside his own establishment.
i’m glad hmac didn’t go all “do you know who i am?” on the guy at veni’s. i mean, it would have been funny, but i doubt anything would have happened.
btw, stay away from landmark. i’m just saying that because i don’t want it to get all crowded.
@Mike: You’ve asked the quintessential Irene’s question. I think it’s part of a plan on management’s part to make a burger, salad, fries and drink cost more than $20. Even breakfast there can add up fast if you don’t watch for the extras.
Yeah, the additional costs and the g.d. noise from all those motorcycles on Olive is why I usually forget Irene’s exists when I’m looking for a place to eat breakfast/brunch/lunch.
Her name is Katie.
Sadly I think I know the name of every server and bartender but that’s just cause I’m old and a lush.
It’s true. There is a weird click in the Tower. I lived there for years and it doesnt seem to have gone away.
I would just say if you ever feel slighted, say something.
Heather, did the guy have an Eastern European accent?
He had an accent, but I can’t be sure from where.
And for the record, the man was very kind. No attitude from him at all — just not very accommodating under the circumstances.
I LOVE Livingstones! Everytime I’ve been there I’ve had excellent service-which was only once a year. For my 30th birthay, 3 days before we left for Texas, I met up with my bestie who shares the same b-day as me. Boy was I disappointed! The waiter was not only rude but also ignored us as we waved and hollered for his attention. Someone from our table finally walked up to him as he was taking an order from the table right next to us and informed him we needed some service. HE STILL DID NOT COME TO OUR TABLE! He sent over another waitress to say he was off! He was NOT! He was still there when we left and continued to walk by our table several times! We took back the tips we had left for him before the tabs were picked up-as well as scratched off anything from the tip line for the credit cards. We only left tips for the second waitress who was very nice. I won’t be wasting my time there anytime I go to visit family. Yes, I still love the food but it’s not worth the crappy service.
hmac,
i recently noticed that ‘stones serves a sunday brunch. not sure why i never noticed before, but it’s something i’m thinking of trying some sunday.
WOW! Denied a place to sit and enjoy a over priced crappy drink. Are you ok? Did you wake up the next day and realize that the world is a dark and scary place? Just breath! Everything is going to be ok.
@MsJoey – whose name is Katie?
Headband cuteashell girl from Stones is Annie.
Ok, thanks for letting us know
Useful. Thanks.
It’s “breathe,” by the way.
usually too busy with work and school, not much of a tower rat.
Have found this:
-During a Rogue show at VVV on the patio? (kind of a well promoted show, Performer had been on the local News, local headliner (etc.)
We’re sitting there (evenng,) and they have all these patio heaters… (early spring.)
only thing was, they weren’t on…
-So we ask the attendant person from VVV,
‘..hey, can we get these turned on, Does somebody know hot to turn these on?
(wound up asking, like, 3 separate staff people,
-each time told
‘…sure, we’ll be right on it, we’ll be right back…’
-Nothing happened.
we FROZE, ohmygod… (and I’m a cold weather person.)
-checking the patio heaters, figgered, I have a lighter, how hard can it be?
-no propane tanks in any of them.
(never ‘heard’ from anyone on the staff, either.)
Been a while, but the few times I’ve been at Starline Grille? nice people, slow service, forgotten apps, (but nice people.)
Hit ‘Stones for the shrimp crab quesedilla, (astonishng)
–but if you go there late? you’ll find yourself standing by your lonesome for a while, until somebody ‘notices’ you… the place IS as dark as a tomb.
Million El? -okay food. (never had bad service, ever, great waitstaff, fast service.)
Don’t know if the fish place is still there,
(I stopped going.)
Nice enough owner, but reealllly chatty, and, for some reason? Their conversations always seemed to wind up fixating on these ‘Filipino ‘girl-boys,’ or something…
Okay Annie, you’re right.
Stephen, sometimes I’m wrong.
It’s not often though.
I agree!! I already pay like 7 bucks for a burger, 3 or 4 bucks for fries or Onion Rings that are NOT included and 3 bucks for a drink. Then I gotta throw in an extra buck 95 for some ranch….It’s nuts. Me N Eds is starting to do it too depending on which one you go to…Must be a sign o’ the times.
And see this is just another example of favoritism.
I never get charged for my extra dressing or drinks.
Ever.
That sucks guys. I’m gonna ask my friends who work there why they do that.
I totally know that guy! He gave me similar attitude at Veni’s last year. The patio was empty, me and a friend were having drinks and we picked a table. He then proceeded to question us as to why we picked “that” table. We said the patio was empty, so what difference did it make? Then we left and went drinking somewhere else, and I haven’t been back since. Not a great business move for Veni’s.
Comon..
Vini’s at 9:30 on a Friday night and you expect to get a table at a whim, and on top of that, expect the staff to feel the same way?
“I explained there was four of us, and that the patio was full and the bar had just two available seats left. He said he was sorry. I asked if he would prefer we stood in the middle of the restaurant, drinking our drinks. He said again that there was nothing he could do about the table, but he’d keep an eye on the patio and let us know if anyone left.”
Sounds like he really couldn’t do much else if that table was reserved for diners.
And asking a question like “would you prefer us standing in the middle of the restraunt” just makes you look like a complete *You know what term goes here*.
You attract more flies with honey than vinegar. (something a lot of bar goers need to remember)
Get over yourself, you’re not the only person in the many o’ watering holes in Tower.
[yikes, thought I'd posted this this morning, but perhaps I hit a wrong button?]
I heard Rogue Festival and Veni Vidi Vici mentioned in the same post, so I thought I’d inject some information.
I think (though I may be wrong) that Wet Towel is refering to the performance this year by poet Liesl Garner on the patio at VVV. It was in fact cold. It was, I believe, the very first night of the full festival. We didn’t quite have our act together—not uncommon for us on the first night of the fest. I have, for several years, been the “venue manager” at VVV for the Rogue. I was out on the patio enjoying dinner with my wife and daughter as I heard Liesl’s show. The wait staff was doing a hundred and one things. It became colder than we expected. I asked one of the workers about the propane heaters. My wife kept nudging me to say more, as she was noticing others were getting cold, but as I said, the waiters/waitresses were jamming all over the place going about their appointed rounds.
I want offer my apologies to anyone who froze their yarbles (or yarble-ettes) off, and to offer, in defense of the hard-working staff and ownership of Veni Vidi Vici, that by the next act, the heaters were blazing.
In fact, I do believe that though the Rogue brings *some* new business into VVV, and certainly they gain some good will through the generous sharing of their venue, I think it’s done mostly out of love.
Furthermore, this year in particular, the Veni Vidi Vici staff busted their buns to really accomodate us. [BIG THANKS to them!]. Some afternoons I’d show up and find the PA and chairs already set out {supposed to be *my* job].
SO, though I regret one small set back, I thank the hard-working and friendly staff there.
You are not special.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
You’re the same decaying organic matter as everything else.
Get over yourself girl
how professional and honest to the journalist’s creed is it to bash one venue and plug your coworkers venue in the same thread?
i guess bloggers are different from journalists after all; silly me
u buy your drink at the bar sit at the bar; want to sit at a table sit at the table and THEN buy your drink from whatever server is working that table and tip them not the bartender; lesson learned
you were only there for ONE drink anyways, the patio table’s were full, if you sit down at a table and don’t order anything you cost them money; at least they don’t have to clean up after an empty table; now if you were going to stay for more than one round i might have some sympathy for you but you weren’t so i don’t
Our 2 cents:
Landmark: been there a few times. Crappy service each visit.
‘Stone’s; too loud and crowded, mediocre service.
VVV: can’t really say, since we were only there for a Rogue show. it was hard to get service at the bar, tho.
Palomino’s: a class act all the way. Stockholm Royale’s to die for.
Nobody has mentioned the Starline Grill. Our fave place. Great food (they’ve revamped the menu), good service, though sometimes understaffed, and good peeps to hang with.
No, it was Heather asked the waiter if they preferred them standing in the middle of the restaurant.
My thoughts exactly. The blogger said that the waiter was very kind, no attitude, but they just couldn’t sit in that table because it was reserved for diners.
I don’t know how this blew up so big over not much, really. This even ended up being on page A2 of Friday’s Bee! And to make things worse, the story has even been distorted by the commenters on this thread.
…so the solution would’ve been that they start kicking diner’s out at that time?
I know all the Tower District bars entirely too well, and I’m generally pleased with the service I get. Always treat your bartender with respect, and you will ensure a steady alcohol supply.
The Tower nightspots are always crowded on weekend nights, and, in most places, the staff works hard to serve all the customers. No, service is not perfect when there’s a crowd. As in every bar in the world, you get better service if they know you. On the whole, though, the Tower District’s alcohol delivery personnel do a great job under pressure, especially considering all the drunken shenanigans they have to put up with from the customers.
Best bartenders in the Tower: Mika, Cadie, Cyrillia and Mandy at the Starline Grill; Hilary and Crystal at Livingstone’s; Mariam and Ben at the Landmark; Thomas at the Million Elephant; Lydia at VVV.
I love the Starline Grill, and all the service people there are great, but the Grill’s ownership and management deserve a special shaming for not scheduling extra servers on busy nights.
Oh, and the word you’re looking for is “undrunk.”
“snowflake” … that was awesome!