I just read this interesting piece on CNN.com about a battle being waged in Brooklyn over the practice of people bringing their babies to bars. Parents who support it say they deserve to relax and socialize as much as the next person. Others think the bar should be a child-free zone.
I'm in the second camp. Recently I was at Logan's Roadhouse and saw a woman sitting with her baby in the bar area. Logan's is a family restaurant, so that might not be too outrageous. But a few weeks ago, I saw a baby sitting on its mother's lap while she sat at the bar at Livingstone's; it was late in the evening, after the dinner hour. A few months before that, I saw a toddler and two children hanging out at a table in the bar area at Starline Grill. It was after 10 p.m. on a Tuesday. Their mother was seated at the bar, drinking with her friends. The children were supposed to be coloring, but they were mostly roaming around the bar, unattended.
In my opinion, bringing a baby or a toddler to a bar is like bringing a child to a rated 'R' movie: inappropriate. Bars are one of the only places I can go to avoid other people's children, something I take full advantage of. I am not going to watch my language, keep my voice down, or be made to feel like I should modify my behavior in any way because you can't find a babysitter.
Bar areas should be 21 and over, not 21 and/or child with guardian. The day you see me and my friends crack open a bottle of Jack Daniel's at Gymboree is the day you should feel free to start bringing your screaming, drooling spawn to the bar.
But that's just one non-breeder's opinion. Babies in bars: what do you think?
I'm with you, Heather.
You haven't lived until you've seen the Happy Hour spread turned into a changing table.
Also, they get s-faced quickly and just babble incessantly.
I mean, GROW UP!!
File this under 'people who shouldn't breed'
Good call. I'm adding that tag now.
Unless that kid is taking shots with me, keep them the hell away from me! C'MON!
They can't allow someone under 21 year to sit at a bar. Years ago (7 years ago I believe) NerdDad and I were in Bennigans with our 6 month old child. We were waiting 25 minutes for a table. So we went to the bar to get a soda while we waited (yes, really, a soda) and we were asked to leave the area. The bartender told us that they could get fined or shut down for having someone under age sitting at the actual bar. Regardless of consumption. So that raises the question, how are these bars in California getting away with it?
Now, regardless of the law. Keep those kids home! You do not deserve to relax that much. I have 4 kids and would never consider it!
I really hate this, too. I especially hate being at the casino when children are there at the restaurant as well. I am a mother, and I am really against other moms doing this. It doesn't look right!
While I'm going,
dear obviously pregnant women, don't hang out at the bar or night club either.
That's just gross!!!
I'm no model mom but I can't even fathom the idea of bringing a baby to a bar. Get a freakin babysitter or buy a 40 oz. and stay home!
Hey don't knock drinking Jack at Gymboree 'til you've tried it!
I was at Hero's (pre-name change)and there were a group of women who had their children with them while watching a Monday Night Football game.
The best part was when one of the kids (who had a hella foul mouth) started getting a bit out of control the mom tried to scold him and make him concentrate on his homework. Yep, you read that right, do his homework in a bar. Classy!
I hate the randomness in deciding what is legal. A few years ago I was at bevmo with my girlfriend who was a few months short of 21. She didn't touch or buy anything. Girl at the counter refused to sell to me because "no one under 21 is allowed, she shouldn't even be in the store." Meanwhile some lady is there with a kid about 8 years old. But apparently that was ok
That's totally different. A kid can go shopping with their parent in a place like BevMo, yes. That is their guardian and the parent probably isn't buying the booze for the kid. But the cashier questioning you is totally understandable if your friend wasn't 21. If you were buying for her, that's illegal and yes, the store would get into trouble. So I'd say that's not really random at all, more like common sense. Your comparison failed.
The comparison is that I was told "No one under 21 is allowed." Not "No one close to 21 is allowed." What's the cutoff? If someone bringing is bringing in a teenager, who is to say if that is their kid, or just some teenager that paid them to buy them booze?
Underagers actually CAN sit at a bar legally. They just shouldn't and most bars have policies against it.
I hatehateHATE kids in bar situations for all the reasons you said.
Hero's has a comedy night and I got up to do my definitely R rated crap and saw a dad with his two kids. I asked about them, aged 10 and 12. I told the Dad while I was onstage how inappropriate my stuff was for kids and he just said "well, how else are they gonna learn HarHar!"
Um, Dadwad? Seriously. We're in a BAR. My material includes ridiculous (and likely unnecessary) long bits about anal, fetal and other completely inappropriate sexual matters.
I got off the mike, I was so thrown off...I just couldn't bring that crap to little kids. What a maroon the dad was. jerk.
I'm up for a few Jack and cokes at the Gymboree. What time shall we head over there?
I agree with you 100%. Kids shouldn't be in bars or sitting at the bar with Mom or Dad. It's tacky and it shouldn't be allowed.
I wonder what these parents think about taking the baby to an adult themed business like Susie's or City lights?
Haha picking up baby mommas at the bar just got crazier.
so, it looks like i could be the first here that isn't in total opposition of the idea. in other countries it seems this isn't as big of an issue. parents may regularly enjoy a pint at the pub with their kids.
now, i understand some time sensitivity, like, your kid shouldn't be at the bar at 10:30 pm because they need to sleep before school, but why not at 7? perhaps our culture wouldn't have such abuse issues with alcohol if we didn't see it as such a taboo.
i'm not advocating giving booze to kids, but if they saw their families responsibly enjoying a drink or two in a public setting they may not go on to abuse them later.
i also think that some bar settings are worse than others. for example, i would never want to see a child sitting on the patio of most fresno bars because that's where all the smokers are, and i don't want to expose their lungs to the smoke infested starline grill patio.
so you're saying the way to teach your kid to NOT grow up to be an alcoholic is to take him to bars as a kid and show him how to drink "responsibly"? what is "responsibly"? only have "a couple" drinks? not driving home and letting your kid see that drinking makes you incapable of functioning in a manner that doesn't break any laws? WHATEVER! this is the most ass backward thing I have heard of in a long time. how many kids do you have and how raging of an alcoholic are you? Just......WOW.
so, i'm away from teh internets this week, so i'm late responding to this.
yes, i think kids can see appropriate, responsible use of alcohol by going to someplace that serves alcohol and being around their parent. they can also see the opposite. i'm not blind to that at all.
as a few others have responded after me, there is a difference between people getting all tanked up and people have a drink or two while they socialize or have a meal. this is fairly responsible. however, much of our culture is feast or famine. we live in excess or deficiency. so, people go out and either say, "i'll never drink, don't ever do it" or "i'm getting smashed/crunk/fall down drunk/blame it on the al-al-al-alcohol." perhaps if more americans did see responsible use of substances they wouldn't be as abused. instead, alcohol is frequently seen as a taboo, and so little johnny or jill hides their first few drinks. when they get to legal age they jump straight into the deep end.
sure, there will always be people that abuse alcohol. but most would agree that these can be responsibly used, so why not model that for the next generation?
That's the first thing I thought of as well. I've traveled to Europe several times and always saw children in the pubs (at a reasonable hour of course). But the difference is that drinking is more a part of their daily culture. Here in America, we wait until the weekend and then get as hammered as we can.
I have to slightly agree with this, I'm not totally opposed to the idea either. I do agree that it's totally inappropriate to see toddlers and young children running around, especially after say 10p, where it's a mostly adult crowd. They're exposed to foul language and drunken fools and I know I would feel uncomfortable, like I have to be careful what I say/do in a place where I come to do exactly the opposite. And I definitely do not think children under any circustances should be allowed in places that are strictly bars, solely for drinking.
But some of the places mentioned are places people go only to eat as well, which is part of the culture in other countries you mention. Many pubs also serve food, and people go to watch sports and socialize as much as to drink, which is why kids in pubs is normal there. Here we had really separated the two but now so many restaurants are trying to cater to both crowds (I ate at Yosemite Ranch a while back and at 9pm it totally turned into a club with a cover charge) and it's really blurring the line. It comes down to the responsibility of the parent, I would not be phased by a completely quiet baby laying/sleeping in a carrier while the parents ate a late dinenr, maybe even enjoying a drink or two. But older kids who are old enough to walk/talk/repeat everything you say just should'nt be around after 10 (or whenever a place starts charging a cover!). And while I have no kids right now, I would be DEVASTATED if i was banned from eating my absolute favorite mozarella sticks and cheesecake at Stone's after dark once I'm a parent. I will be out well before 10 I promise!
Parents can take their babies and kids out to dinner. The parents can even enjoy a drink or two while at dinner. The thing I don't want to see is parents bringing their babies and kids with them to party at a bar. Kids can learn that alcohol isn't all bad at home where they can see their parents drink a pint or two responsibly. A bar setting shouldn't be used to teach a child life lessons. That's why I'm against baby mommas taking their daughters to a bar. They don't need to follow in mommys footsteps.
When I was 4 years old my parents used to leave me in the car in a dark alley while they drank at Bud N Lils (used to be a bar on the southwest corner of Belmont and Fresno St). I wish they would have taken me inside!
This was on the front page of the Bee paper edition....
this is the deadly mix of liquor and children....
http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/03/02/1843420/3-dead-4-injured-in-madera-co.html
nuff said
that piece of crap is out of jail already? WTF?
I personally think bars should be reserved for those of drinking age, or at least 18+.
That being said, at least in Oregon -- it's pretty tough to find a bar that allows minors. There are a couple bars in Ashland, Oregon for instance that allow minors during 'lunch hours' and it's only for a set period of hours. Outside of that, it would be illegal for a minor in a bar.
Howver, in CA -- I wish I knew the rules. I see where sometimes Starline has events for all ages and some events at 18+ and other events at 21+ yet Starline is a bar -- so I don't understand what guidelines CA uses to allow or not allow minors.
Anyway, point is I think it'd be kind of lame going to a bar and relax and have a drink and have to listen to a wining child and/or having to not exactly let loose because some kid might be within earshot. That's lame.
So does anyone know what the rules are in CA? Your northerly neighbor seems to have pretty clear cut rules/laws.
Starline is an all-ages club. They passed through a ton of hoops to get the special designation. Kids wear different wristbands from adults and Starline has specially trained and ABC certified people there watching to ensure underage people don't get a drink, don't share a drink, heck, don't HOLD a drink.
ABC and the Po-Po check up on Starline often, and at this writing Starline has no violations ever for underage drinking.
Having said that, the shows there usually dictate what age the people are in there. Sometimes parents do bring really young kids to the shows, but it's for the particular acts more than any bar scene.
This is rare tho. I'm in total agreement with MDub's comment.
Also, if a parent knows their kid really well, it's sometimes okay when I see the child out with their responsible parent at Stones or Starline during food-service hours. I'm thinking mostly of Joy and her very mature daughter. They don't do the smoky patio, they stay away from bar-douches, and the podling is usually there to watch her mother sing. To me, with responsible parenting there, that's okay.
The guy who brought his kids to my hard-R rated comedy show? NOT okay.
Kid in BevMo? Who cares.
Kid near the bar at Stones after 11pm? I care. Kid at Landmark while they're serving food? No biggie. Kid at Bobby Salazars late night? Yikes.
Proper parenting of course is the key.
Bad parenting... yeah.
Any of our business what others do.... nope.
I'm not against having minors in bars as a matter of their safety. I don't care whether or not the bar atmosphere is good for kids. I don't care about the smoke or the swear words or whatever messages they might glean from watching a pack of drunks. No, I'm against kids in bars expressly because I prefer hanging out in an adult atmosphere. But it's not the brats themselves I see as the problem ... it's their parents, who seem to think everything in the world should be sanitized for the sensitivity of nine-year-olds. Or more accurately, for the sensitivities parents hold for their nine-year-olds. If I wanted to hang out with parents and their brats, I'd go to Disneyland. But I don't.